any interest in the future of the world in the next 10-20 years buy this book

[beet1e]

Ghost - I'll read it, and if any of the people here can point me at a book which says the oil won't run out and proves that global warming is a myth, I'll read that too. By that time, Rotax will be along with a few rolls of plastic sheeting on the back of his SUV!

Hey jackal, I'm surprised you don't have an opinion about this book. I was relying on you. In the past, you've been so reliable in coming up with opinions on books you haven't read, countries you haven't visited etc...

[FUNKED1]

if any of the people here can point me at a book which says the oil won't run out and proves that global warming is a myth, I'll read that too

[lazs2]

I think I will go with funked's scientists... you guys can wring your hands and wail tho if you like.

Even if the doom and gloom "looking for a government study grant" grant guys are half right....

Let's just stop the torture and use the damn stuff up..  It is a proven fact that we are crisis driven as a people (well.... cept the socialists who are lost without government) and....

once we get to the point where there is a real crisis... something will be done or.... billions will starve or die of disease or war and the problem will solve itself..

really... nothing to worry about.

lazs

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
read this book: The End of Oil: The Decline of the Petroleum Economy and the Rise of a New Energy Order  
by Paul Roberts

The world is quickly running out of oil. In the year 2000, global production stood at 76 Million Barrels per Day (MBD). By 2020, demand is forecast to reach 112 MBD, an increase of 47%. But additions to proven reserves have virtually stopped and it is clear that pumping at present rates is unsustainable.

Oil is the sine qua non of “industrial” civilization—the one thing without which such civilization cannot exist. All of the world’s 600 million automobiles depend on oil. So do virtually all other commodities and critical processes: airlines, chemicals, plastics, medicines, agriculture, heating, etc. Almost all of the increase in world food productivity over the past 50 years is attributable to increases in the use of oil-derived additives: pesticides; herbicides; fungicides; fertilizers; and machinery.

When oil is gone, civilization will be stupendously different.

a very good read, even for you "no-global warming" people who care a **** about it.

How about I DON'T read the book, and "maybe" experience this IN PERSON?  I know I drive a gas-guzzling Ford Explorer with cleaner exhaust than the 20 Semi's spewing a cloud so big, it hides the rig and trailer.   But hey, noone's perfect.  Maybe I could remove my catalytic converter............

The version I'd like to see is the US using it's Reserve and flipping off the rest of the world.  

Karaya

[Nashwan]

USA has about 1600 billion tons of coal.

Proved reserves at the end of 2004 stood at about 250 billion tons.

If the US were to produce, from coal alone, the amount of oil equivalent to what the US imports, the US would consume an additional 0.912 billion tons annually. Total coal usage would be less than 2 billion tons, and that would allow us another 800 years at present energy consumption.

The known reserves will last 245 years at current consumption, the US consumes roughly twice as much energy from oil as it does from coal. In other words, you need to treble the amount of coal used to make up for oil. In addition, the US currently gets as much energy from natural gas as from coal, so to replace oil and gas with coal requires four times current coal production, meaning current reserves will last about 60 years.

[beet1e]

Thanks, Funked - I'll order it today. I'm just putting in an order for the other book. Several available on Amazon at around £4.50. BTW Funked - have you read it yourself??

Originally posted by lazs2
I think I will go with funked's scientists... you guys can wring your hands and wail tho if you like.

Rrrrrrrriiiiiggggghhhhht.... So your mind is already made up, without having read either book. That's the Lazs we know and love!

[Rotax447]

Originally posted by mora
If you mean nucular power then yes, that's exactly what should be done at this point. It is being done around the world, but not in the scale it should be.

I hear what you are saying, and I agree with you in the short term, still, reactors worry me.  I am no expert on Chaos Theory, but after watching Jurassic Park:-), I understand that if you build a simple reactor, it will fail in a simple way, and if you build a complex reactor, it will also fail in a simple way.  Take it to extremes as in the space shuttle, with triple redundancy everywhere, and you have a meltdown every ten years.

Then there is the problem with the reactor core, spent fuel rods, boron/graphite control rods, the list goes on and on.  The only long term solution I can think of, is to build Cheops like pyramids around the planet, and seal the thing up for three thousand plus years.  Again, I am not raining on the nuclear parade, but we must be realist about this.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Yeager
THE SPICE MUST FLOW!!!!!!!





ARGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

We need but one thing... the Kwisatz Haderach.

[Rotax447]

Originally posted by Sandman
We need but one thing... the Kwisatz Haderach.

What about the Shai-Hulud!?  Last I heard, a couple were spotted digging around the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

[mora]

Originally posted by Rotax447
Then there is the problem with the reactor core, spent fuel rods, boron/graphite control rods, the list goes on and on.  The only long term solution I can think of, is to build Cheops like pyramids around the planet, and seal the thing up for three thousand plus years.  Again, I am not raining on the nuclear parade, but we must be realist about this.

As a physicist you must know that the amounts of waste are actually pretty small. I explained in another thread how we are handling it, and I do trust the experts on this one. As what comes to safety, someone compared the dangers of global warming to the danger of being hit by a meteor. I think the comparison is more valid in the case of reactor safety.

Here's the picture and link again, even more safe than a pyramid. This facility is sufficient for the used fuel from 5 reactors for 50 years or so.


http://www.posiva.fi/englanti/

[Rotax447]

Originally posted by mora
As a physicist you must know that the amounts of waste are actually pretty small. I explained in another thread how we are handling it, and I do trust the experts on this one. As what comes to safety, someone compared the dangers of global warming to the danger of being hit by a meteor. I think the comparison is more valid in the case of reactor safety.

Here's the picture and link again, even more safe than a pyramid. This facility is sufficient for the used fuel from 5 reactors for 50 years or so.


http://www.posiva.fi/englanti/

I am not a physicist, though I did receive my BS in physics many years ago.   It looks like your scientists have really thought this one through.  For years, waste storage was a political hot potato in this country.  Waste sat around in corroded, leaking, above ground drums.  The politicians sat around like the proverbial three monkeys.  We now store our wast deep in New Mexico salt mines.

We have a de-activated reactor in Michigan, and the surrounding area is mildly hot.  There is a fence, lights, a couple of guards playing pinochle, and it will have to stay that way for thousands of years.  Talk about job security.

[Clifra Jones]

You guys can read all the books you like or believe all the doom-n-gloomers you like but the Enviro-movement has had only one real goal. The undermining of the western capitalist economy. I have seen far to may instances here in Florida of common sense solutions to environmental problems be rejected out of hand by the Enviro-Nazis because they did not adequately punish the business interest they were trying to target.

One only need to look at the Sugar Cane industries solution to nitrate run-off into the Everglades. It is a working solution but the Greens tried everything they could to shut it down and impose punitive damages on the Sugar Cane producers. These 'so-called' compassionate and caring people didn't give a snot about all those people who's jobs would have been lost if they got their way.

For the Kyoto count up see: http://www.junkscience.com

Preconceptual Science:


The Proof:


More:

[beet1e]

Done - Both books ordered.


LOL Clifra Jones, that first cartoon, second from from left reminds me of various people on the board, and even in this thread!

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Nashwan
Proved reserves at the end of 2004 stood at about 250 billion tons.

The known reserves will last 245 years at current consumption, the US consumes roughly twice as much energy from oil as it does from coal. In other words, you need to treble the amount of coal used to make up for oil. In addition, the US currently gets as much energy from natural gas as from coal, so to replace oil and gas with coal requires four times current coal production, meaning current reserves will last about 60 years.

What I said was if we made up imported oil with coal... not replace the domestic production as well, let alone replace natural gas too.

Demonstrated Reserves of Economically available coal in Appalachcia are 103.5 billion tons. The State on Montana alone adds 120 billion tons.

US Geological Survey estimates the total identified coal resources as being 1,600 billion tons. Another 1,600 billion tons of unidentified resources are postulated.

Argue with them.

[icemaw]

Only 10% of the oil in every well that has ever been drilled has ever been recovered. The oil is still down there its just that it has been too expensive to recover or the techniques to recover it do not exist at this time.