It's official...

[Kev367th]

Exactly Dan.

The whole war for the Spits/109/190 was a constant 'leapfrogging'.
One side gained the advantage, the other countered it, all the way to the end.

Would say the first Spit IX's were a desperation measure thoguh.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Kev367th
RE: Turns with a V? - That I'd like to see.

Badboy made EM charts comparing the V to the VIII and then the VIII to the XVI. The sustained turn rate of the VIII was better than the V, and much to my surprize, his testing showed that the XVI sustained turn rate was again better than the VIII. The differences were not large, but they were there. Couple that with its spectacular (for a Spit) roll rate, outstanding climb rate, great accelleration, decent top speed and its no stretch to see the XVI being perked.

This has nothing to do with the real plane, only its performance and resulting overuse in AH.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Any of the birds you compared it to perked?

No, but they all have one outstanding trait, the XVI has everything but top speed.

[Kev367th]

Decent top speed?
It's sub 400mph straight and level at ANY alt.
Best I think is around 396mph.

Give us RAF fans more choices, you'll see less Spit XVI's - simple.

Easy to say perk this, and perk that, if your country has a good selection of FREE competitve aircraft.

Like to see the turn compared at the F V's best alt, the LF XVI would have trouble up there.
Like comparing the top speed of an La-7 with a P-47N.

Whole idea of clipping the wings was to increase the roll rate.

So I guess if it gets perked and we start seeing lots of Mk VIII's you be wanting that perked also?
Its faster than XVI, turns better, rolls worse, climb with = fuel is better than the XVI, same acceleration (maybe better = fuel because retractible tailwheel)

Remember 25% fuel is not the same on XVI and VIII due to the VIII wing tanks (more fuel).

Hell perk all Spits, give us a Gloster Gladiator, oops that'll get perked for its oustanding turn rate.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Grits
Badboy made EM charts comparing the V to the VIII and then the VIII to the XVI. The sustained turn rate of the VIII was better than the V, and much to my surprize, his testing showed that the XVI sustained turn rate was again better than the VIII. The differences were not large, but they were there. Couple that with its spectacular (for a Spit) roll rate, outstanding climb rate, great accelleration, decent top speed and its no stretch to see the XVI being perked.

This has nothing to do with the real plane, only its performance and resulting overuse in AH.

Nothing scientific about the following comment, other then my own lousy flying, but I just don't see the big differences.  In fact the more I fly it, the more I think the new Spit IX is the better of the 3 as it seems to outurn the 16 and can certainly hang in there with the VIII.  It rolls better then the VIII and has the same gun package, and the speed difference just isn't noticable to me in the midst of a fight.  I keep knocking down 16s and 8s in the IX.

It just flies smoother to me.

The XVI drivers are flying it like they think it's an LA, so that doesn't work as it isn't that much faster.  If anything they are more apt to try and stay in and turn fight.

So what if it's the flavor of the month.  I know I was up last night in a Spit IX and it still seemed to be nothing but LAs I was  fighting.

The question isn't whether the best AH pilots in the XVI are going to be unbeatable.  The question is are the average pilots in the XVI going to be unbeatable.  The answer is a definate no.  The advantage to the average joe's flying XVIs is they tend to stick around and fight, which is a benefit to everyone as more guys are learning ACM, not just shoot em in the face and run like heck as most do in the LA7.

As soon as the average Joe's in the MA get unbeatable then perk the 16, but since the LA7 hasn't been perked yet, I'm of the belief that the 16 shouldn't be either.  

Again, a guy in a 16 thinking he's got the beast that can't be beat is more apt to stay in and fight, and that's the key here.  Don't take that away.  They'll all be back in LA7s going light speed the other way.

[Kev367th]

One big problem with perking the Spit XVI -

You won't reduce it's usage, you'll all but elimante it. Why?

People will just take the VIII, it's all the XVI is, minus the 50 cals and clipped wings, but with the advantage of better range and speed.
So why pay for a XVI, I'd take a XIV over it (and it has problems surviving in the MA), and the VIII will be free (for a while).

When the VIII becomes the Spit of choice, and I've no doubt it would be, we'll be back here again with the "perk the VIII" threads.

If the XVI gets perked, it's all but inevitable the VIII will follow in time.

Then were not only back to pre the new Spits, we're worse off, we lost the uber Mk V.

Far fetched - I don't think so.

Just think if we had a true free 1944 Spit, i.e. the XIV or a free 1945 Spit the F.21, then you would probably have something to scream about.

[Squire]

At 20k you can get 404 mph TAS out of it, confirmed by E6B. Clean condition.

[Kev367th]

404mph sounds within the margin of error for them.

Easy solution, give us more mid/late war 'free' competitive RAF planes to choose from, instead of perking them all, and viola you'll see less XVI's.

RE - Mk VIII, should turn better than the XVI, another thread says there may a bug in the FM for it.

[Squire]

Ya, just posted for info.

AFDU tests shows 407 mph for a standard +18 lb boost merlin 66 Spit IX, the clipped wings had no detrimental effect on top speeds.

I got 404 sustained from a dive, held with WEP (I think I was at @ 25 percent fuel too). With a test of level flight and a full tank, I think you get @400 before WEP runs out, so it depends.

[Waffle]

Simple fact: All the studs Kurt Tank's leather werk looked cool, but caused way too much drag.

no pun intended.

[Squire]

Had some time to kill, so took Spit XVI up with 100 gas clean, got 404 at +18 lbs at 19,900 ft, which I beleive is FTH (above that the boost drops off). Achieved without aid of a dive.

Just for info...

[Furball]

Originally posted by Krusty
I fear nothing in one. I have landed dozens of multi kill sorties in one. I've taken on bombers, dweebs, turn and burners, a 30k afk 190D heading to my HQ, and you name it I've fought it with ease in the spit16. Much as I actually like the ride, I smell a small perk coming.

what is your MA handle? i cant remember ever even seeing you in MA?

[gatt]

Hmmmmm ....

[storch]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Reasons -

Only has 1.12K/D
Acceleration is almost same as La7 up to the XVI top speed (still sub 400mph)
Roll still worse than the 190
Next inline would be the VIII

So perk the 1944 (cough) XVI, everyone moves to the 1943 VIII, perk that, we're back to a 1942 F IX!!!!

Now might be a good time to try a tour with the XIV unperked, see what happens.

The solution is to give MORE options, not take away what little the RAF has.

With the limited (but much better) Spit lineup, of course the XVI is going to see lots of use, it's the best (VIII very similar) performing FREE one, especially for the MA low alt furballs.
Before I get the "Spit has the most of any type ingame", consider this -
The main opponent was the 109 AND 190, which combined has much more than the Spits available.

The reason you don't see a lot of perk the D9, K4 or Pony threads is because both the USAF and LW have many more planes available to them that are competitve in the MA that none gets OVERUSED.
Solution is simple - Give the RAF more FREE options in the 1943 onwards area.
I would guess that even reinstating the old V as an LF Vc with clipped wings would reduce XVI usage.

Lets imagine we hadn't got the XVI, but just the VIII, we'd still be in the same situation.
So are we saying that any Spit produced after the 1942 Spit IX is going to be perked, because thats the way it's heading.
Even heard it suggested the Seafire should be perked to reduce it's usage of CV's - ITS INSANE.

What would be useful is to find out what planes have lost sortie numbers to the XVI, find out were all the 'extra' came from. Obviously the V and IX sorties have dropped.

RE: Turns with a V? - That I'd like to see.

the reason why the K/D is low (in your opinion) is because every two week noob is in one.  I've out turned some players with a heavy 100% fueled up 110 while still keeping my bombs.  the spit may not need to be perked but it would be better for game play if were mildly perked.  I would argue to reduce the perk on the spit14 at this time as well.  your argument regarding the LW models is not valid.  were HTC ever to correct those models then perhaps it would be.  I don't see HTC ever doing that though it would seriously hurt their quarterly projections.

[Grits]

LOL...before this gets too far along, I want to clarify my position. I am not lobbying for the XVI to be perked, I couldnt care less if they perk it personally. I just wanted to throw out my guess that it will be perked and why. I could be wrong, who knows? If you ask me I say unperk everything but the Temp and the 262.