I might be heartless...

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by nirvana
It's my upbringing in that if you see something wrong, fight it.  Sure I could sit in complacence for 30 minutes or an hour, whatever.  I respect them as human beings, but I am also ready to move on with my life.  I'm reacting as if i were the one that was dead.  I wouldn't want my friends carrying on and crying about it.  I'd want everyone to carry onwith their lives, a tragic end to a young life.  Of course that is just my opinion and what i would like to happen, I have no influence of how others react.  

In fact it was wrong of me to tell people that I was not going to feel any pain for the two young men, because that is what started it.  People started forcing their beliefs that even if I didn't know them I should still feel pain for them, and I didn't like that.  I liked it as much as my teacher telling me that she "owned" me while I was in her class.  I have a brain and I have a mind, I use them.  If someone doesn't like my opinion that's their fault.  I'll accept their grieving, i've offered a shoulder to cry on, but I won't be acting like I knew them.



I don't even think that made sense, i think i'm just starting to ramble and repeat what I say.

You'd have gotten along with my 15 year old daughter just fine.  She was the same way.  She couldn't tolerate people acting the part.  

The difference was, she 'killed em with kindness'.  She'd go after anyone who was intolerant of the folks who didn't fit in.  She was fearless that way.  The world will be a lesser place now that she's gone.

She also knew there was a time and a place for it.  Right now is too soon to be making an issue of this.  Later, when the dust has settled is the time to reflect on peoples actions and question the motivation.

Just accept that how you react and how others react to this is clearly different.  Neither is the right or wrong way

[nirvana]

Dammit guys I think they have gone too far.  They have actually brought the media in, it was on the news this evening.  It is quite literally a circus of disrespect now.

[ROC]

If anything is to be learned from this experience, it is simply that life can blink out of existance with little or no notice.

Why waste even a moment wringing your hands over how Other people deal with the loss, how they commune, or overcome?  You clearly don't know these guys nor care to participate in the mass group hug, so why are you investing so much effort into being repulsed by somebody elses actions?  Why have you latched onto this so hard?

The only thing you need to get clear on is this,  it isn't about you, get over yourself.  Participate with them, remember them your own way, or don't remember them at all, but good grief, get off those who want to attempt to deal with the loss their own way.  

The Only, and I mean ONLY people that need to be concerned over whether or not there is disrespect is the immediate family.  Did it possibly occur to you that this Circus of Disrespect may be a single bright light of support to the family that lost a child?  Who are you to be offended?

[nirvana]

You're right ROC, why waste my time with something of little concern to me.  Perhaps it is that I think it s but a common occurence, death that is, not having your friends die.  Perhaps I am shocked and awed by their actions, perhaps i'm just begging for attention, or maybe it just doesn't matter.  Moreso I lack a simple understanding and sympathy for humans grieving.  It is dumb to be offended by something I am clearly not involved in, and that I am dragging myself into everytime I take notice of it.  While it may be easy for me to carry on with life it will probably be very hard for them to carry on daily routines.  I've never thought of the media as any more then ratings mongerers that will do anything for a stories and that is why I call it a circus of disrespect, the media is a disrespectful audience, as am I.  I believe we should let the dead rest in piece, and so that's what this thread should do.

[Hangtime]

PC confrontations are the worst.. usually unwinnable since yer far more likely to create gold from lead than you are brains from vacuum.

So, Pick yer social 'battles' very carefully. Be advised it's possible to win every one, and still lose the 'war'.

Or, as my dear 'ol gramps used ta say, 'engage brain before mouth, cuddlinghunk'.

[FuBaR]

Personally I care about those who have cared about me, I dont use my energy to feel sorrow for other people. Hope I dont  get any enemies from saying this, but I didnt feel anything from 9/11, It isnt a matter of caring or not caring, its a matter of what affects me as a person, Not feeling for people I dont know doesnt mean that I dont give a crap, or make me a heartless person, or keep me from acknowleging that it was a horrific tragedy, But it doesnt emotionally affect me. Simply because I knew noone in it, and  I am thankful I didnt.  This could be a way of sheilding myself I tend to assume, but I can tell you I am not heartless.



To anyone here on the boards who may have lost someone in a tragedy  I mean no offense. Fubar

[cpxxx]

I was like you once, Nirvana. Didn't want to get involved in situations like that and wondering at the motivations of many of the people involved. But I soon gave up. Quite simply it's part of living in any society. All have their rituals and the funeral/mourning rite is one of the strongest in any society. We have to say goodbye to our relatives and friends and then move on. That is the reason for the ritual. The fact that some people are enjoying the whole event in some morbid way doesn't detract from the fact that other people need the ritual before they move on.

It works in all parts of life. We always end up doing things we don't want to or don't enjoy or feel uncomfortable doing. It's all part of living as part of a family or the society we live in.  

You did well to spot the hypocrisy of some people. Just remember it for the future. Remember it too when you find yourself  part of a group who all believe passionately in the same thing or issue or course of action. Ask yourself then, are they all really believing the same thing or are some of them simply there because they don't want to be left out of the group or mob. OR maybe they are afraid to differ from the group?

Pick your battles carefully or you will get yourself marked down as a crank or an oddball. This issue was not the one to fight. You should simply have gone to the memorial and observed the way people enjoy the ritual even if they care nothing for the subjects. They may even believe otherwise themselves but you will also find that most people including me and you lie to ourselves all the time. It's just easier to get on with life that way.

This applies to all parts of life, politics, religion, work, college, religion, family. I came to that realisation as a teenager and kept confronting the hypocrisy. It was futile, you can't change people really and in the end you give up and conform, become a bit more conservative and go with the flow.

I'm more like Fubar now, although 9/11 did upset me. I try to no longer use up my energy feeling sorry for people I don't know. People die all the time. It's part of life. But I don't bother to challenge people who get all worked up about it. It's not worth the energy either. Save it for the situations that apply to you.

[Golfer]

Originally posted by nirvana
You're right ROC, why waste my time with something of little concern to me.  Perhaps it is that I think it s but a common occurence, death that is, not having your friends die.  Perhaps I am shocked and awed by their actions, perhaps i'm just begging for attention, or maybe it just doesn't matter.  Moreso I lack a simple understanding and sympathy for humans grieving.  It is dumb to be offended by something I am clearly not involved in, and that I am dragging myself into everytime I take notice of it.  While it may be easy for me to carry on with life it will probably be very hard for them to carry on daily routines.  I've never thought of the media as any more then ratings mongerers that will do anything for a stories and that is why I call it a circus of disrespect, the media is a disrespectful audience, as am I.  I believe we should let the dead rest in piece, and so that's what this thread should do.

Would you consider a double murder/suicide involving some 19 and 20 year old kids a newsworthy event?  I was in a unique position when I was thrust in the middle of that situation with the local media.  I recieved word of the situation 8am the day after, and by 5pm that night I'd finally seen (not talked) to my best friend who survived.  His sister, also a very close friend was a victim.  Her new boyfriend, also a victim of her ex boyfriend.

I knew everyone involved but the ex strangely enough and everyone associated with them knew that.  It was no surprise that later in the evening I had recieved calls from our local paper and a tv news station asking for information.  I didn't say a word to the TV station (stonewalled by everyone involved.   If not they never ran anything except the 9-1-1 call which I was not ready to hear when I did) but the local news journalist knew one of the families and I had confidence in her respect for the situation.  I spoke on the condition that I was the only one who spoke regarding one family involved and she held up her end of the bargain.  While I agree that normal everyday events are not 'newsworthy' and the majority of news stories are 'bad news' if people didn't watch them (as morbid as it sounds) then they wouldn't run them.  The television station had no ties to anybody other than they wanted a soundbyte.  The newspaper journalist had a connection and she got one interview and wrote a nice story out of respect for all involved.

Some background on the girl:
I was captain of the golf team, her brother the #2 and herself the only girl (and also played regularly as our #5 or #6 player for the varsity) involved with golf at our high school.  I couldn't count the holes we played, the frosties shared or the steps taken all 3 of us side by side.   You see why we were all close.  Her and I were in the same grade, her brother a year below.  They lived together in a condo at the same college (not the one I attended) and that's where the incident took place.

Two days later I spoke at her wake and played "two step" at a church service for her with a friend of hers I didn't know and we later went on to play in a band with the brother that survived.  There is a scholarship fund set up in her name and a memorial golf touranment every year in N.C. to raise money for it.

Two girls each year win college scholarships that otherwise wouldn't if the tragedy had not happened.  While I'd give anything to have her back, as would her family...they are the hosts of the tournament.  They keep it strictly a family affair as far as help around the tournament goes.  I help a little bit but barely feel I contribute.

I've spent too much time trying to write this already and won't go into any more details, but nirvana if you ever tried to stand in the way of me mourning any way I chose the loss of one of my friends I would ask you to pray that I restrain myself.

You are nobody to say that people mourn the right or wrong way.
You are nobody to talk down for others for dealing with a loss.
You are nobody to try and get a reaction out of people already emotionally overloaded.

You are beneath everyone you are against in your posts for even bringing this up on an AH BBs.  You don't deserve praise, attention or affection for boasting about your outrage that people are mourning someone that you don't care about.  You're are in no position to say what they do or do not feel.

You are in no position to judge them and if I had the opportunity to stand in front of a camera and air an unedited segment telling the whole world about a great girl who was murdered and a great legacy that lives on...I'd jump at the chance.

[*NDM*JohnnyX]

We had a tornado strike an elementary school in my district in '89....very unusual for NY, it killed 9 and injured a few dozen, made the national news. Since then, many many kids that were in the district have died, been killed, or killed themselves. Something like 30 for that 5 year span of students, a high percentage for a group that includes 1200 of us.

Every time another dies they have a feature story in the paper about the "Coldenham Curse". The media circus sickens me.

"On November 16, 1989, a wind gust at 12:05 PM blew down the free standing cafeteria wall at the East Coldenham Elementary School near Newburg, NY. Nine students were killed. The event was called a tornado, but the only rotation seen in the area was a dust swirl in the parking lot. Professor Fujita's detailed survey of the entire path showed only evidence of microbursts. It exists on official records as a tornado, the deadliest F1 "tornado" in history."

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/02/27/bmmk300.htm

Believe me, you aren't cold hearted, I feel the same way when a friend dies and this is all brought up in the papers yet again.

[nirvana]

I'm respecting how they mourn, i'm not talking down to them.  I just think the media is anything but respect.  Like you said, they were there for a soundbyte, just so they would have the story.

I believe I deserve nothing for bringing up this topic on these boards.  I was wondering how heartless and cold I am for not feeling anything for two boys that died that i didn't even know.  Had i not said anything to my friends in the first place, all of these arguments wouldn't have occurred.  It is my opinion that they were forcing me to mourn the loss of their friends when I wanted nothing to do with it.  I don't believe anyone has a right to talk about the deceased in such a way that I have, to make a mockery of the entire situation.  Had I not felt forced to mourn I wouldn't have reacted.  It was completely stupid and immature to question their mourning process of which I wasn't even involved in.  I, however, also feel it is somewhat wrong for my school to set up an area for people who have been greatly affected, but I can also see their reasoning.  Seriously, I have seen almost as much hype over 2 deaths then I saw over 9/11.

20/20 hindsight though, I would have said nothing.

And i'm sorry about your circumstances Golfer.

[Golfer]

Originally posted by nirvana
Seriously, I have seen almost as much hype over 2 deaths then I saw over 9/11.

3000 lives isn't hype.  I for one don't let a day go by without thinking about what I saw that morning even only on live television.  It's not just the 3000 lives.  It's the 3 people I knew.  Many more knew many more.

Comparing a car accident to September 11th...c'mon.  September 11th isn't hype, it's a national tragedy.  2 high school kids.  Boys.  It could have been you, you know that right?  It's a local tragedy.

[ATA]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Or, as my dear 'ol gramps used ta say, 'engage brain before mouth, cuddlinghunk'.

He was right about cuddlinghunk part .

[Pooh21]

thankfully the class of 96 where I graduated had the decency to wait until july of 96 to start wrapping themselves around sagauros.

[Shuckins]

I'm sorry, Nirv, that you're being required to sacrifice thirty minutes out of your busy day to pay respects to high school students you didn't even know.

There are some things that a person is expected to do when they reach adulthood.  You could call attending this memorial service a type of civic duty...something you should do simply because you are a human being.



Couple of thoughts about some statements in other responses;

"This type of thing isn't supposed to happen.." and "They shouldn't have to be dealing with this type of thing at their age..." referring to the deaths of the two students in the car accident.  

Oh?  Why not?  Death is one of the realities of life.  Are we raising our kids these days in an artificial environment, a type of cocoon, when we try to insulate them from all of the unpleasant things that can happen?

Reality 101's first lesson is, "You CAN die son.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it.  There are bad consequences for some actions...and certain actions carry really BAD consequences.  You are NOT exempted from suffering those consequences.  If you do drugs, you could fry your brain.  If you drive while intoxicated you could kill yourself and/or other people.  If you drive too fast, you could kill yourself.  If you drive AT ALL you run the risk of becoming a statistic.  There are NO guarantees that you will live forever."

[nirvana]

The kid that driving suffered a broken nose and some other bruises but lived as did another kid (according to the article i posted).  Could he be facing anytype of manslaughter charges?  Maybe involuntary vehicular?  People are already making threats toward him.  Make mistakes pay the consequences though.