Author Topic: Uncle Joe  (Read 617 times)

Offline Wotan

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7201
Uncle Joe
« on: July 21, 2001, 03:35:00 PM »
From the Toronto Sun - December 13, 1998

By ERIC MARGOLIS Contributing Foreign Editor

As Britain's socialist government cleared the way for a gaudy show trial of
that Great Satan of the left, Chile's Gen. Augusto Pinochet, the 65th
anniversary of this century's bloodiest crime was utterly ignored. Leftists
now baying for Pinochet's head don't want to be reminded of the Unknown
Holocaust.

In 1932, Soviet leader Josef Stalin (Koba) unleashed genocide in Ukraine. Stalin
determined to force Ukraine's millions of independent farmers - called
kulaks - into collectivized Soviet agriculture, and to crush Ukraine's
growing spirit of nationalism.

Faced by resistance to collectivization, Stalin unleashed terror and
dispatched 25,000 fanatical young party militants from Moscow - earlier
versions of Mao's Red Guards - to force 10 million Ukrainian peasants
into collective farms. Secret police units of OGPU began selective
executions of recalcitrant farmers.

When Stalin's red guards failed to make a dent in this immense number,
OGPU was ordered to begin mass executions.

But there were simply not enough Chekists (secret police) to kill so many
people, so Stalin decided to replace bullets with a much cheaper medium of
death - mass starvation.

All seed stocks, grain, silage and farm animals were confiscated from
Ukraine's farms. (Ethiopia's Communist dictator Mengistu Haile Mariam
used the same method in the 1970s to force collectivization: the resulting
famine cased one million deaths.)

OGPU agents and Red Army troops sealed all roads and rail lines. Nothing
came in or out of Ukraine. Farms were searched and looted of food and fuel.
Ukrainians quickly began to die of hunger, cold and sickness.

When OGPU failed to meet weekly execution quotas, Stalin sent henchman
Lazar Kaganovitch to destroy Ukrainian resistance. Kaganovitch, the Soviet
Eichmann, made quota, shooting 10,000 Ukrainians weekly. Eighty percent
of all Ukrainian intellectuals were executed. A Ukrainian party member named
Nikita Khruschchev helped supervise the slaughter.

During the bitter winter of 1932-33, mass starvation created by
Kaganovitch and OGPU hit full force. Ukrainians ate their pets, boots and
belts, plus bark and roots.

The precise number of Ukrainians murdered by Stalin's custom-made famine and
Cheka firing squads remains unknown to this day. The KGB's archives, and
recent work by Russian historians, show at least seven million died.
Ukrainian historians put the figure at nine million, or higher. Twenty-five
percent of Ukraine's population was exterminated. Millions of victims.

Six million other farmers across the USSR were starved or shot during
collectivization. Add mass executions by the Cheka in Estonia,
Latvia and Lithuania; the genocide of three million Muslims in the USSR;
massacres of Cossacks and Volga Germans and Soviet industrial genocide
accounted for at least 40 million victims, not including 20 million war
dead.

The cruelty inflicted by Stalin's Cheka on Ukraine, the Baltic states and
Poland, led the victims of Red Terror to blame the Jewish people for both
communism and their suffering. As a direct result, during the subsequent
Nazi occupation of Eastern Europe, the region's innocent Jews became the
target of ferocious revenge by Ukrainians, Balts and Poles.

While the world is by now fully aware of the destruction of Europe's Jews by
the Nazis, the story of the numerically larger holocaust in Ukraine has been
suppressed, or ignored. Ukraine's genocide occurred 8-9 years before Hitler
began the Jewish Holocaust, and was committed, unlike Nazi crimes, before
the world's gaze. But Stalin's murder of millions was simply denied, or
concealed by a left-wing conspiracy of silence that continues to this day.
In the strange moral geometry of mass murder, only Nazis are guilty.
Socialist luminaries like Bernard Shaw, Beatrice and Sidney Webb and PM
Edouard Herriot of France, toured Ukraine during 1932-33 and proclaimed reports of famine were false. Shaw announced: "I did not see one under-nourished person in
Russia." New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty, who won a Pulitzer
Prize for his Russian reporting, wrote claims of famine were "malignant
propaganda." Seven million people were dying around them, yet they saw nothing. The New York Times has never repudiated Duranty's reports.

Modern leftists do not care to be reminded their ideological and historical roots are entwined with this century's greatest crime - the inevitable result of enforced social engineering and Marxist theology.

Western historians delicately skirt the sordid fact that the governments of
Britain, the U.S. and Canada were fully aware of the Ukrainian genocide and
Stalin's other monstrous crimes. Yet they eagerly welcomed him as an ally during World War II. Stalin, who Franklin Roosevelt called "Uncle Joe," murdered four times more people than Adolf Hitler.

None of the Soviet mass murderers who committed genocide were ever
brought to justice. Lazar Kaganovitch died peacefully in Moscow a few years
ago, still wearing his Order of the Soviet Union, and enjoying a generous
state pension.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Uncle Joe
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2001, 04:58:00 PM »
Hmmm... go read any book on Stalin, and all of the above is described in detail. It's hardly 'hidden', 'denied' or any other sinister adjective you might want to use. And tying modern left-wing politics to the atrocities of Stalin is like tying modern right-wing politics to the atrocities of Hitler.

BTW, your cheap 'editing' shot did not go un-noticed. Afterall, this article is available on the web. Pathetic.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Uncle Joe
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2001, 06:07:00 PM »
Uh-oh... Editing a news quote? Bad form!

I didn't read either well enough to form an opinion about the slant the edits were intended to create, but it was curious...

From a brief scan of the two, I could see lines that were deleted, lines added, whole paragraphs removed, sentences that were completely reworded....man...the works. It's a mess.

Here's an example:

Wotan's quote
"Modern leftists do not care to be reminded their ideological and historical roots are entwined with this century's greatest crime - the inevitable result of enforced social engineering and Marxist theology."

Actual story
"Modern leftists do not care to be reminded their ideological and historical roots are entwined with this century's greatest crime - Stalin's mass murder machine - the inevitable result of enforced social engineering and marxist theology. Had Germany won the war, today's `reformed' Euro-Nazis would take the same amnesiac approach to Hitler as modern European socialists do to Stalin."

Not good man... but it's at least given me an excuse to finally use one of these:

 :eek:

Offline Wotan

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7201
Uncle Joe
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2001, 06:54:00 PM »
get out of here i recieved an email from a news group and cut and pasted exactly as I recieved it ..............

the only edit was (koba) ...............

I haven't read the whole link Dowding provided and to insist that the wording is mine is non-sense..........

I never said the facts about stalin were hidden I posted  the mail because most people overlook them........... especially on the left, given the riots surrounding the g8 conference in Italy........

I wouldn't want my nic  associated with hitler thats why it isnt............

However someone as well read as dowding seems to be I find it hard to believe he would radomly chose "koba"

on another board he expressed his distaste for game nics linked to hitler and the like but doesn't feel the same way when he chose his name with the link to Stalin ............

That was point of the post and to provide people with some facts they may not have known about...........

The edit (koba) was obivious

Nothing quite as sinister as he already believes ..............

I will edit (koba) if he requests but the rest stands as I recieved it.........

<edit>
Nash the date I have for this story that was emailed is dec 18 1998.......

Hardly a new story and the fact I provided the email with the name of the person who wrote the artical along with the paper it was first published we show I have no intent of changing it accept as I have already acknowledged...........

Also just read Dowdings link and it is "different" then what I recieved.

I can only speculate that it was edited by the paper for publication.

Or you can assume it was me either way   :)

<edit2>

umm check out the wisdom fund link dowding provided..........

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Uncle Joe
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2001, 08:33:00 PM »
Ah... not yer fault then. Didn't know who edited it other than the fact that it *was* edited (butchered).

Offline ispar

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
      • http://None :-)
Uncle Joe
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2001, 09:33:00 PM »
What on earth does modern leftist politics and liberalism have to do with Stalin? Sounds like someone out to discredit and cast doubt on the other side to me... but what do I know?

 :confused:

Offline Wotan

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7201
Uncle Joe
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2001, 01:08:00 AM »
Nash again all I can say (if you chose to believe me) is that the only edit I made to the post was to add "(Koba)" and it was in bad taste.  

Originally I found it amusing reading Dowdings point of view of things and I don't need to go into depth but I am guilty of "egging him on" even though much of what he says is true but there is a lot he leaves out.

Which leaves me to adress Ispar's reply.

Any ideology taken to extreme leads to suffering. The modern right is kept in check for the most part by the tragic events of ww2. However they need to be constantly reminded of the real effect their ideology has on people.

The modern left however hides behind the "egalitarian" ideology. However the history that the left is built on is quite the opposite. Everywhere the left has triumphed has been on the blood of those they claim to stand for. Atleast in this country (usa) they have never recognized this fact.

This truth I speak of is not limited to right / left wing politics but religion as well. And real people suffer.

Coming to terms with the reality of what extremism leads to is necessary to move forward.

The left puts aside its true effect on real people because they believe their "intentions" are good. As a result  more real people have suffered and died for this. Yet they continue with the same old out of gas philosphy with some modern "tweaks" claiming it will be better this time.

Anyone wishing to continue this debate please feel free to email me

  Wotan@fw-190.com

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Uncle Joe
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2001, 03:55:00 AM »
Don't pretend you posted out a desire to educate people. The level of education on this board is high; most people here know a great deal about WW2, and probably know about Stalin too. It was a troll for a response from me, pure and simple.

Don't try to dress it up as anything else.

 
Quote
Originally I found it amusing reading Dowdings point of view of things and I don't need to go into depth but I am guilty of "egging him on" even though much of what he says is true but there is a lot he leaves out.

You brought it up, pal. I suggest you actually state 'what he leaves out'.

Also, I do remember you stating :

"From his previous posts it is clear he is a stalinist"

I'd like you to point out the posts that make that 'clear' - because I can't for the life of me think of which ones you refer to. Until you do, I'll just consider it an attempt at a personal attack (and a pretty poor one, at that).

As for choosing Koba - I didn't choose it 'randomly'. The first time I heard of it was in a newspaper article on Robin Hood, and how many different cultures have a similar mythical figure. Koba was a Russian Robin Hood, and that's why Stalin chose it early on when he was a young revolutionary. Which is something I was aware of, but didn't really care about, to be honest. He changed his name to Stalin before he assumed total power, by the way.

 
Quote
on another board he expressed his distaste for game nics linked to hitler and the like but doesn't feel the same way when he chose his name with the link to Stalin ............

If I remember correctly I was objecting to the handle 'jewkilla'. I don't see how they can be any motivation/justification for that than to cause offense or shock people. If my handle was Stalin or Ukrainian-killer or something equally stupid, then I'd see your point. But it isn't and I don't.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
Uncle Joe
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2001, 06:00:00 AM »
"Uncle Joe" was a good guy and all he did was for "Mother Russia".

dam I forgot to take my medicine....

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Uncle Joe
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2001, 09:30:00 AM »
Can anyone explain me what is an "Order of the Soviet Union" worn by Kaganovich?...

Offline Krusher

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
Uncle Joe
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2001, 01:04:00 PM »
Borda wrote:
Can anyone explain me what is an "Order of the Soviet Union" worn by Kaganovich?...
-----------------------------------------
I cant find any refrence to the "order of the Soviet Union" is this the same person (see below)

Kaganovich, Lazar Moiseyevich , 1893–1991, Soviet Communist leader. A Jewish shoemaker and labor organizer, he joined the Communist party in 1911. A capable administrator, he rose quickly through the party ranks after the revolution, and by 1930 he had become Moscow party secretary-general and a member of the Politburo. He was an influential proponent of forced collectivization and played a role in the purges of 1936–38. He became commissar for transportation (1935) and after the purges was responsible for heavy industrial policy in the Soviet Union. In 1957, he joined in an unsuccessful attempt to oust Khrushchev and was stripped of all his posts.

Offline Krusher

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
Uncle Joe
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2001, 01:05:00 PM »
Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich (Kogan), of Jewish descent, was born in Kubany, near Kiev, Ukraine, in 1893. In 1911 he joined the Jewish-founded Communist Party and became involved with the Bolsheviks (Lower East Side New York Jews). Kaganovich took an active part in the 1917 takeover of Christian Russia by Communism and rose rapidly in the Party hierarchy.

From 1925 to 1928, he was first secretary of the party organization in Ukraine and by 1930 was a full member of the Politburo.

Kaganovich was one of a small group of Stalin's top sadists pushing for very high rates of collectivization after 1929. He became Stalin's butcher of Christian Russians during the late 1920s and early 1930s when the Kremlin (jews) launched its war against the kulaks (small landowners who were Christians) and implemented a ruthless policy of land collectivization. The resulting state-organized forced famine, was a planned genocide and killed 7,000,000 Ukrainians between 1932 and 1933, and inflicted enormous suffering on the Soviet Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan.

Josef Stalin (Dzhugashvili) altered census figures to hide the millions of famine deaths when the Ukraine and northern Caucasus region had an extremely poor harvest in 1932, just as Stalin was demanding heavy requisitions of grain to sell abroad to finance his industrialization program which was on top of enforced collective farming of 1929. Stalin is conservatively estimated to have been responsible for the murder and/or starvation of 40,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians during his reign of terror, while the total deaths resulting from the de-kulaklization and famine, by way of Kaganovich, can be conservatively estimated at about 14,500,000.

On any analysis, Kaganovich, was one of the worst mass murderers in history, and little wonder that during World War II large numbers of Ukrainians greeted the Germans as liberators, with many joining the Waffen-SS to keep Communism from enslaving all of Europe.

Offline Krusher

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
Uncle Joe
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2001, 01:09:00 PM »
a very interesting link
 http://www.mwukr.ca/genocide.htm

Offline Krusher

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
Uncle Joe
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2001, 01:27:00 PM »