A little tip for those being chased

[Kweassa]

A little tip for those being chased, and are in an extremely dangerous condition...


1) Unless you are in a plane that can manage fantastic overshoot maneuvering, or you are very confident in your own combat maneuvering skills, the chances are you'll probably die anyway. Therefore, if you are being chased by an enemy plane at close ranges, you actually have more chance of survival by setting up a steady flight path and letting your friendlies behind you latch on to the enemy behind you. It is a race between the enemy behind you and your friendlies behind him - if the enemy takes his shot first, you'll be shot down, but at least you know that the enemy won't be returning home with the kill. If the friendlies behind you take out the enemy plane first, you'll survive.

2) Therefore, if you have decided that you need help, then your evasives should be mostly be slight jinking and rolls. Any kind of wild turns will make it harder for your friendlies to help you. Especially when the enemy plane behind you is something like a Spitfire, and the friendly who is trying to help you is something like a Fw190, turning wildly will ultimately be the benefit for the enemy, not for you.

3) None of us can help you, if you're alone at 12k engaging an enemy plane, and the rest of us are at 5k. Nor can we help you, when you just dive straight down to 5k and start running off into one direction. If you are engaging an enemy plane, and you think you need help, manage a steady turning decent down to 5k or less so both you and the enemy plane behind you, are slow enough for us down here to catch.

4) Forget all the junk about BnZ you've heard, when you are trying to help some one. Imagine a situation like this; There is something like a Spitfire chasing our friendly plane down low. You decide to help. And with all that BnZing around, the chances are that if the enemy Spit pilot is anyone smart he'll not only evade all your BnZing, but also shoot the friendly pilot down, and then make you run away.

 If you are going to help someone, blow E, dump E, lose alt, etc etc do whatever you need to do and do it quick. I've experienced hundreds of cases where friendly pilots were so busy doing their "BnZ" bit, that they not only let friendly fighters get shot down.

5) There is a fine line of difference between 'unpredictabel jinking' and 'stupid stick rolling'. I see many people entering a 'jinking' - that looks weird and perhaps a little bit unexpected - but totally useless in the end. This is because the evasives you are doing is not a result from watching the enemy plane, but a result of just mashing the stick around.

 Watch the enemy behind you. Jink and roll. If you see his nose coming into alignment with you, rapidly kick rudders and push the stick into an opposite direction so you disappear under his nose. The enemy will roll, and try to align himself again. Watch his nose again and then move out of the way consciously.

 Stupid stick mashing is a jinking that gets you killed. Smart jinking is something that might actually save your life.


 ...

[Schutt]

Verry good post.

I would like to add a few little points.

When you have an enemy on your tail and see a friendly nearby that could help, dont hesitate to ask for help on range channle. Dont be surprised if he doesnt for any reason (might be pilot wound, out of fuel, no vox, afk, own problems, out of ammo) most cases it is because he has his own problems not because he dislikes you.

When someone says hes coming to help or you see hes coming it greatly helps to follow the above points... try to get the enemy slow and low enough so the other guy can help and then see if you can line him up in front of the other guy, so dont break hard but pull gentle s curves... like being drunk. When you break away hard your wingman cant follow the enemy, because he breaks away too.

[Delirium]

I don't intend to be rude, but I disagree with Kweassa.

If it is a single guy aka a 1v1, why run? Will you not be able to make next Christmas? Will your family mourn your passing? No...

Reverse and take a chance, you'd be surprised how often you can win by forcing the other guy to overshoot and fly in front of your guns. I could post how I force the overshoot, but other guys like Lev are alot more adept at it than I.

Besides, if you die, just reup... timidity is a sickness that needs to be eradicated.

[Grits]

While I understand Kweassa's reasons for posting this to help newbies, I agree with Del.

I cant count the number of times I have been out of ammo, shot up, or for some other reason wanted to RTB and managed to scare a badguy away that was chasing me just by acting like I was coming after them. 90% of the MA will run if you act like you think THEY are the target, kinda like a mean barking dog that runs away as soon as you turn and face them.

[Roscoroo]

Originally posted by Delirium
timidity is a sickness that needs to be eradicated.

Ive seen a alot of that too lately .. How the hell are ya gonna get better if you dont press the fight to the edge .. u'll be suprised how much you learn from doing this .

[Schatzi]

Judging from what happens in the TA, i think theres a whole lot of new players that just started out. NEw comercial or the gift package?

Yes i agree, lotsa timidness in the MA these last weeks.

Aside from that, still a good post!


All we can do is take those newbs by the hand and help them. Show them that running is boring and will only get you killed anyway.

[Patches1]

Reversing is relative to your aircraft versus the enemy aircraft and the relative energy states of each aircraft. To imply that one should reverse and take a chance against his pursuer in hopes of causing the persuer to overshoot is a bit simplistic. And,  if you read Kweassa's entire post...it's not a post about a 1 versus 1 engagement, but rather, how one being persued can assist a friendly to clear one's six while being persued.

Posts of "timidity" and "running" with the implication that the persued pilot should reverse and meet death to improve his skill are not helpful in this forum.

Posts of smart flying are helpful.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Patches1
Reversing is relative to your aircraft versus the enemy aircraft and the relative energy states of each aircraft.

Exactly.  And the difference between the two is the window where you the pursuied can decide where and when the fight will take place.  The object should be picking the point where you are least likely to be jumped by a 2nd or more enemy.  Not avoid a fight entirely.  Youll never learn to defend yourself in that situation by crossing your fingers and hoping someone else will save your butt.  See kills #s 13, and 14 in this film where I wait till that window closes, not because I want a friendly to save me, but because I want to maneuver aginst the persuer without interference from additional enemy.  Or if you want a more extreme example look at this film where the window is infinate.  I out E the 2 pursuers and wax them both.

To imply that one should reverse and take a chance against his pursuer in hopes of causing the persuer to overshoot is a bit simplistic.

Yes, because there is technique to it, but you'll not learn the technique by putting your fingers in your ears and hope that someone else will take care of it for you.

Still there is lots of good info in 2-5

[Roscoroo]

Originally posted by Schatzi


Yes i agree, lotsa timidness in the MA these last weeks.

Aside from that, still a good post!

yep , just after US prime time the timid ones are comming outta the woods and running like mad .  

[BlauK]

If one needs help, could it be simplified as far as just "try to offer your 6 to a nearby friendly while making minimum maneuvers to stay alive".

[Delirium]

Originally posted by Murdr
Yes, because there is technique to it, but you'll not learn the technique by putting your fingers in your ears and hope that someone else will take care of it for you.

Murdr is spot on... it has taken me some time to be able to be able to reverse and win consistently (and I still lose alot, but less as time goes on) but everyday it gets easier and easier.

Pellik is the one I owe for initially opening my eyes, wish I could buy him a beer sometime.

[NHawk]

Originally posted by Kweassa
A little tip for those being chased, and are in an extremely dangerous condition...
 ...

To put it in simple terms... NEVER turn towards your help. Especially when your help is closing fast from your high six. You pretty much negate his firing solution by causing him to overshoot and re-group.

[straffo]

Show you are smart when your help is in firing range break hard in the least expected direction

And next scream about the lack of check six !

[pellik]

Originally posted by NHawk
To put it in simple terms... NEVER turn towards your help. Especially when your help is closing fast from your high six. You pretty much negate his firing solution by causing him to overshoot and re-group.

Actually there's a good tactic built around turning towards your help. The idea is that if you have a co-E friendly you effectively do a horizontal scissors opposite each other to offer your friendly face shots and HOs on the persuing enemy. HOs are really acceptable in this move, IMO, because if the enemy decieds to try and reverse the HOer his disengauge will let you low yoyo right back into him.

This works especially well when you're in a real turn fighter as his inevitable lag persuit means that with a talented friendly in the area you can time it to gaurantee face shots w/o the HO.

My point here though is more that you can benefit from breaking any rule if you approach it in a smart way. If you have a half decent stick on you and you try to drag him for a friendly in the most predictable mannor imaginable (such as Kwessannas's recomendation), you can damn well bet he knows how to deal with the situation. The best pilots are the ones who break the rules you don't expect them to break and get something for it.

[pellik]

If you absolutely have to drag an enemy for a while and just cant reverse him due to plane matchup or whatnot, 80% of the pilots in the MA run out of ammo before they figure out how to land hits on someone doing negative-G barrel rolls.