Well ok since you demand it

[Furious]

that you gsholtz?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Furious
that you gsholtz?

He sounds more like DMDnexus than scholtzy.  Or maybe skyprancer II.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by storch
lazs, plenty of work here in south florida and the pay is good.  carpenters are earning $18 to $20 per hour welders $25-$28 per hour.  guys that are proficient with gate and access electronics are naming their price and getting it.  we don't have many white guys looking for work though.  they all want to be indoors it seems.

The sun is hard on our delicate skin and pretty faces,

[storch]

Originally posted by weaselsan
The sun is hard on our delicate skin and pretty faces,

yes it is, couple that with 100% humidity and it does make for miserable working conditions.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by storch
this may be an unpopular view however in light of the current natural disasters that have struck the southern states we are experiencing acute labor shortages.  in my field we are currently turning away business because we simply do not have the manpower.  every single day we receive several phone call like this.  

phone rings

contractor: Good morning this is

caller: how backed up are you?

contractor:  we are not accepting any new business until we meet current obligations

caller: but sir I have a pool that is exposed and I've been cited by the county and have 30 days to address the issue because it is a safety concern.

the question for the general public isn't how money much a contractor wants for his services but how quickly can someone get to it.

we had 30 years worth of roofing, screen enclosure, fences, gates, landscaping, pools, structural damage work generated over two hurricanes this year in south florida.  that was added to two hurricanes hitting south central florida in 2004.  the demand is of epic proportions.

not too many natives want to work in any of these trades.  why would we not hire immigrants that are here legally to provide these services?  it's a win win for all of north america and central america.  I have worked with mexicans and central americans my entire adult life and they are simply some of the best workers ever.  many arrive here highly skilled, motivated and with can do attitudes.  I prefer them to the alternatives which are typically people with criminal backgrounds and generally unmotivated.

what's in it for us would be sufficient manpower to service the current demand which is estimated to be three years worth of work in my field alone.  hurricane season is just 5 months away too.  whta if we get whacked again this year?  It wouldn't be cheap labor though, they would earn current market rates for their labor.  around here it's been slightly higher than union scale for some time now.

I can think of around sixty people daily for whom an army of new workers from anywhere would be answered prayer.  I would place myself at the top of that list.

I personally have no problem whatsoever with any immigrant from any country that is here LEGALLY.

I only have a problem with those who are here illegally and the companies that hire them.

I still say for this manual labor type stuff they should have a program for those on welfare should be forced to do these tasks in exchange for  and in order to qualify for welfare benifits.

No work no welfare.

Or better yet. Dont want ot work for the welfare benifits expel them from the country and ship em to Mexico in exchange for some Mexicans who are willing to work but cant afford the cost of comming here

[DREDIOCK]

Just now read the article. didnt hav to get much past the first paragraph

"MEXICO CITY - Diplomats from Mexico and Central America on Monday demanded guest worker programs and the legalization of undocumented migrants in the United States, while criticizing a U.S. proposal for tougher border enforcement"

Demanded??

who the F is Mexico to make "demands" on us?

Be Happy Im not the pres.

If I were. My responce would be to pull out of Iraq and afghanistan and turn Mexico into our 51st state. (which I am all for anyway)

Gnats dont make demands of the man holding the flyswatter.
They do their best to avoid being swatted

[storch]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I personally have no problem whatsoever with any immigrant from any country that is here LEGALLY.

I only have a problem with those who are here illegally and the companies that hire them.

I still say for this manual labor type stuff they should have a program for those on welfare should be forced to do these tasks in exchange for  and in order to qualify for welfare benifits.

No work no welfare.

Or better yet. Dont want ot work for the welfare benifits expel them from the country and ship em to Mexico in exchange for some Mexicans who are willing to work but cant afford the cost of comming here

I don't know if you've read the papers or watched the news lately but hiring undocumented workers can place an employer in quite a bit of trouble.  we are required to verify all documentation now with the SSA and DMV just to be safe.  I suspect anyone hiring undocumented aliens would probably be an unlicensed contractor or maybe the landscape outfits and even then only the smaller ones doing strictly residential work.  INS has a big presense here in this market, aside from my personal belief in not hiring undocumented workers the risks are far too great to even consider it.  A sub that we use to do larger county/municipal work had a guy on his crew that had seemingly good papers. while performing work for another outfit at the airport they had to pass the stringent security screenings in order to able to work at MIA.  The illegal was found out and arrested while working.  the sub had all his truck/tools/equipment impounded and he was arrested.   the contractor that hired that sub was questioned at length and all his records scrutinized by homeland security.  no thanks, i'll pass on that kind of stuff.  The state of florida had a program a few years back where they gave hefty incentives to companies to hire youthful offenders that were on house arrest.  at the time I was working for a large mechanical contractor and I was responsible for a crew of sixty men.  my boss hired ten of these kids.  most were black a few were latin.  the first week they worked out fairly well but they just didn't have the work ethic and were easily miffed when asked to do strenuos labor.  they couldn't quit so they just became disruptive to the point that the GC had me remove them from his jobsite.  I have never worked with people that were on welfare but I would never hire any.  they are just too much work and will only slow down a good crew and demoralize an outfit.  no thanks.

[DREDIOCK]

Ok then perhaps have thosee welfare recipients have their welfare subject to renewal based on quarterly or bi-yearly work evaluations.

Receive a poor evaluation or get fired. You loose your welfare.

Dont get me wrong. Im not adverce to helping people who need it.
What I am opposed to is heling people who do not also wish to help themselves.
I dont beleive in a free ride.

Im glad to see the laws so stringent in your area.
But Im sure there are plenty of contractors that also pay "off the books"
I know up here you can legally py someone off the books up to $600.
Course it is my understanding that it is only to apply to people on a 1 time basis. But who is to keep someone from keeping a person as long as they wish and then saying they only hired them that week.

Personally unless its someone I know is a legal immigrant I wouldnt even do that. And would turn in outright any illegals I came across..

[lazs2]

well... I don't know about florida... was there once but it was winter.

Here... if you offered carpenter jobs for $20 an hour you would get plenty of white guys and our summers reach over 100 degrees for weeks on end.  The problem here is that mexican illegals will work for $8 an hour you can hire two of em and if you babysit they will do as good as one skilled worker...  and... they won't ask for overtime or stop for breaks or whatever.  They will start when the sun comes up and leave when it goes down..

My brother is a plastering contractor... he has some old school white guys that work for him and some illegals... the white guys have ten times the talent and.... allways will it seems...  the mexicans are allmost untrainable but... they are dependable and they work hard and show up...  and... sober.

By the time a mexican is a real journeyman... he is probly legal... speaks good english... and... is a lot more picky about overtime and "rights" and such.   And.... complaining about the illegals..

In kalifornia.. the illegals have not only killed the job market but have lowered the standards for construction.... people here are simply willing to accept sub par work even in $1,000,000 homes these days.

lazs

[storch]

Dred I believe those are federal laws.

Lazs we had no labor shortages four hurricanes ago.  the situation as been made critical by roughly thirty years worth of work coming due in two years.  It's not just labor either, there are shortages in all building materials but especially in  steel, roofing, concrete and lumber.  if we have a repeat this hurricane season it will mighty rough staying here.  sadly you are correct the overall quality of construction has gone down considerably irrespective of the value of the home or structure