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Author Topic: 109 Flaps  (Read 8272 times)

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #240 on: February 05, 2006, 06:07:57 PM »
They are IAS, Gripen.  Engeklammerte Werte......

This is going to be so good.  Let's here your theories?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2006, 06:18:40 PM by Crumpp »
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #241 on: February 05, 2006, 06:13:16 PM »
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Ok, I am not an angel - in many of my remarks I provoke a question. But that's because I am nor sure, or simply searching.


No many of your remarks are intentionally inflammatory.  If you have questions you simply ask.  If you want to incite and anger don't be surprised when your treated in kind.

To get respect you have to give it.  To those who act accordingly I go out of my way to be respectful.  To those who act like jerks, get treated like jerks.

Please lets get back to Gripen's revelations about Focke Wulf performance.  I really want to see this epiphany

All the best,

Crumpp
« Last Edit: February 05, 2006, 06:18:15 PM by Crumpp »
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #242 on: February 05, 2006, 06:19:10 PM »
Crumpp:
"No many of your remarks are intentionally inflammatory"

How you interpret that is up to you. They are however not inflammable enough to catch your tail.
Well....a runner up.

Anyway, enjoy your forthcoming scruffle with everybody.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #243 on: February 05, 2006, 07:14:43 PM »
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"Guppy's recent laughable"


Guppy did not put anything " laughable into this thread.  He very honestly and resonably presented the facts about this Spitfire.

It is the fans in his wake who are being laughable.

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And boy, going through your slips in the "BoB" thread left me with a thousand questions.


Get the report from the PRO and quite floundering around grasping at straws.  It's not even an intelligent argument when all your sources are secondhand books from the 1970's.

Gripen do you want to post the set up's for those aircraft or do you want me to make you look silly?

All the best,

Crumpp
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #244 on: February 05, 2006, 07:18:19 PM »
Arrogance is a vice.


And for my books being "secondhand from the 70's"...well, you don't know what I have....for books. The one provoking this is quite new.
Being in Guppy's "wake" means that I generally agree with him.
As for the PRO, you keep hinting some stuff you ordered from there, but it didn't bring magic I guess.
I, unlike you, have at least been at the PRO....
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #245 on: February 05, 2006, 07:28:25 PM »
Start your own Crumpp whine thread, Angus.

It's not everybody...It's you and a few die hard allied fanatics who think physics depends on which bank of the channel your on.

It's really a side show.

Gripen I will send that whole report to HTC.  Just to make you look stupid.

All the best,

Crumpp
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #246 on: February 05, 2006, 07:41:23 PM »
Everybody is stupid except Mr Crumpp I guess.

And...the thread. You already named it before I started it. Worried?
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #247 on: February 05, 2006, 09:47:57 PM »
Look Familiar Gripen?


From Oct 1943:
 

All of those aircraft have either wingracks or at a minimum the ETC501 rack mounted.  All of those speeds are IAS without Focke Wulfs foward correction to TAS.

I will send the report to HTC so your BS gets out.

All the best,

Crumpp
« Last Edit: February 05, 2006, 09:51:13 PM by Crumpp »
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Offline gripen

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« Reply #248 on: February 06, 2006, 01:55:18 AM »
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Originally posted by Crumpp
They are IAS, Gripen.  Engeklammerte Werte......


Well, all I see you can't (again) understand the stuff you post. Just look the text and numbers, these are not IAS values; calculate TAS at FTH (ICAN) if you want the proof.

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Originally posted by Crumpp

All of those aircraft have either wingracks or at a minimum the ETC501 rack mounted.


That is not what the text and the article says, the rating for the Jabo was tested with 5 planes. And these planes were  A-4s or A-5.

gripen
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Offline justin_g

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« Reply #249 on: February 06, 2006, 02:26:37 AM »
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Originally posted by Knegel
according to my airspeed calculator 430mph IAS are 602MPH in 20000ft.
The Spitdatas give 430mph IAS up to 25000ft , here my calculator say 645mph, oh thats mach1 in this altitude.

That calculator must not use standard atmosphere conditions. 430mph IAS(assuming IAS=CAS) is 570mph at 20k, 606mph at 25k. Equal to Mach No. of 0.805 & 0.875.
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In 20.000ft mach1 already did decrease to only roundabout 1070km/h!!

Only if it was 53ºC below zero. Standard Atmosphere temperature at 20,000ft is -24.6º, which makes the speed of sound = 1137km/h(707mph)
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So even with your IAS calculation, even 590mph would be still mach0,89 in 20000ft and even more fast in 25000ft!!

In Standard Atmosphere: 590mph = 0.83M @ 20,000ft, 0.85 @ 25,000ft.
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606mph in 28.000ft?? Thats around mach0.96 in this altitude!!!

Again, for standard atmosphere conditions 606mph @ 28,000ft is = 0.89M.
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Offline justin_g

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« Reply #250 on: February 06, 2006, 03:53:06 AM »
Google translation of the text at the bottom of Fw 190 chart:

Eingeklammerte Werte wurden für Fw 190 A-3 bis A-5 als erflogene Leistungen angegeben. (siehe Rechlin Erpr. Nr. 1661).
(Fehlanzeige des Farhrtmessers infolge Kompressibilität der Luft ist dabei noch nicht berücksichtigt!)

in parentheses worth were indicated for Fw190 A-3 to A-5 as reached achievements. (see Rechlin Erpr. No. 1661)
(nil return of the airspeed indicator due to compressibility is not yet considered thereby!)

To me that says the data in brackets is from flight tests(Erpr.Nr.1661), but without a compressibility correction - which means they are higher numbers than the actual speeds. Eg: Fw 190A-5 chart showing 680km/h, & 662km/h with compressibility correction.
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Offline gripen

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« Reply #251 on: February 06, 2006, 04:20:15 AM »
Well, that is what I have been saying; 680km/h IAS at 6300m would be around 900km/h TAS at standard conditions (including correction for compressibility).

gripen
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Offline Knegel

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« Reply #252 on: February 06, 2006, 05:51:14 AM »
Jep justin,

i did insert -15° sea level by mistake.

But the temp still is a good question. Are there any hints regarding the temp while the dive test??

I still doubt that mach0,89 is credible for a plane with common wings.  

Angus, iam not sure if you read the links that some people did post here, or any other informations regarding supersonic problems, but it looks like not. Otherwise i cant understand your written like this:
"Nope. Now, dive the Komet on full thrust, it will probably break the sound barrier very quickly and dissolve into a furball?"
The Komet wouldnt break the soundbarrier in one piece, neighter any other WWII plane would reach this speed without to get destroyed.
Read the article regarding the Komet flight, where the Komet got into its critical mach (mach0.84). The pilot did cut down the throttle and got the plane out of the dive not far above the baltic sea. He lost many parts of his vertical stab and the wing´s was loose after that.

btw, didnt i read somewhere that the Testers of the Spit flight took back their mach0,9 claim??

Greetings, Knegel
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Offline justin_g

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« Reply #253 on: February 06, 2006, 07:15:47 AM »
Heres the link to the Spitfire dive chart with claimed 0.891MSpitfire dive chart with 0.891M This chart is not for the flight where the prop broke off, btw.
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #254 on: February 06, 2006, 09:20:10 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 02:44:30 PM by Skuzzy »
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