Author Topic: RML expert needed color question  (Read 474 times)

Offline Nr_RaVeN

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RML expert needed color question
« on: January 18, 2006, 12:26:47 PM »
109G2 Major Hannes Trautloft, Kommodore JG54


I'm almost done with this skin but the color on the plate  taken from osprey  publications, just doesn't look correct to me.It seems like two shades of brown. could this be true as the profile artists do extensive research ?
I'm thinking the darker brown  should be RML 70 that's what im using at the moment.
Do any of the gurus have The low down on the color used on this skin?
I did some research See it here
 not sure about it .
 I was hoping that somebody may have a book with some useful info about this  aircraft?
any help would be greatly appreciated
« Last Edit: January 18, 2006, 12:30:17 PM by Nr_RaVeN »
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Offline Krusty

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RML expert needed color question
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2006, 01:31:05 PM »
The fact of the matter is that JG54 used non standard colors a lot of the time. They broke the rules for how to paint their planes and they broke the rules on what colors to use. Sometimes they used stolen/local paints or whatever they could get their hands on.

That's definitely NOT a standard color (brown/brown), so if you can't find any similar colors or war-time color photos (there are some from that time period) I would use your best judgement.

I might suggest testing some shade of olivgrun for the dark colors. There was a RLM color for the lighter brown, but like I said JG54 broke the rules and used what they had.

Offline Nr_RaVeN

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RML expert needed color question
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2006, 02:25:40 PM »
ok that ties in with the link I posted above .
Thanks for the confirmation
~S~
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Offline Nr_RaVeN

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RML expert needed color question
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2006, 05:16:01 PM »
ok that ties in with the link I posted above .
Thanks for the confirmation
~S~
Life is short. PLAY HARD...

"Have patience. All things are difficult before they become easy."
Saadi

Offline Bullethead

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RML expert needed color question
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2006, 05:22:55 PM »
Matching skin colors to those shown in profiles is often frustrating.  The artist might know what RLM color he's trying to show, but like everybody else he has his own idea of what the color actually looked like.  In addition, like everybody else, the profile artist often varies that color from his "best source" info to make it "look right" (to him, according to his own preconceptions and biases) on the finished profile.  There is no guarantee the profile artist is right, and therefore copying him is just copying that artist's artistic interpretation, while including whatever changes he made in the color to suit his own tastes and the medium of the profile, as opposed to a skin.

This being the case, it's probably just as realistic to use your own judgment as to the colors.  A good place to start is with some general assumptions, such as what paints were most likely to be available to units in the field.  The answer to that is the standard RLM paints, although they might have had some captured Russian paints as well.  Then you pick the RLM colors that most closely match what you see in the profile, and if none come close enough to suit you, see if any Russian paints might do.

The basic assumption is that the plane arrived at the front in the then-standard RLM 74/75/76 scheme.  The unit repainted at least the upper surfaces, maybe the lower as well.  There are several possibilities within the general framework of using what was available.

1.  The dark green shown is just the artist's rendering of RLM74, which was for a long time thought to be a dark gray instead of a green.  Batches varied in darkness over time, too.  Anyway, they used their on-hand RLM74 and either RLM 79 Sand Gelb stolen from somewhere, or perhaps captured Russian AII Light Brown.  The belly remains RLM 76.

2.  The dark green is RLM 70 or 71 stolen from a nearby buff unit.  The brown is again either RLM 79 or AII Light Brown.  The belly could be RLM 76 or perhaps even 65, also stolen from a buff unit.

3.  The unit somehow got large quantities of the German desert paint and used RLM 79 and 80 on the upper surfaces.  The belly could still be RLM 76 or perhaps the desert RLM 78.

Given that large numbers of Ostfront planes sported brown in the camo, I think that captured Russian stocks would have been insufficient, especially after the 1st year of the campaign.  Therefore, I'd bet that a lot of RLM 79 and 80 ended up on the Ostfront from 1942 on, especially because of the drop in demand for it in North Africa about that time.  If I were doing this skin, therefore, I'd go with option #3, including the RLM 78 belly.

Offline Nr_RaVeN

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RML expert needed color question
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2006, 07:13:22 PM »
Thanks Bullethead very informative
:aok
~S~ RaVe
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Offline Treize69

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RML expert needed color question
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2006, 10:16:20 PM »
Another thing I've noticed in working from profiles is that in the last few years, especially with the poularity of the Osprey publications, many profile artists are going for a high level of detail in their work- including heavily fading and weathering the paint. And they all seem to have their own way of doing it.

So two artists can start with the same color and come out with completely different looking aircraft after they finish weathering and fading the paintjob.
Treize (pronounced 'trays')- because 'Treisprezece' is too long and even harder to pronounce.

Moartea bolșevicilor.