Author Topic: HO clarification (Read 4000 times)

rshubert · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:59:04 PM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
It was a normal occurance in ww2.

Yes it was used in WWII ... but it was far from a "normal occurrance".

I was just reading last night that the STANDARD response to an attack by a 190 on a spit 5 was to turn and offer an HO. I'll get the book citation for you tonight.

soupcan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:05:56 PM »

99% of the time when i "HO" someone they were trying to "HO"
me .... as an example u are on someones six giving chase
they decide you are getting too close and turn around...
then they fly straight at you....
both parties open fire and 1 goes down
usually the person who goes down promptly types
on 200 channel "dam HOing dweeb"
sorry if I get u in my gunsight i'm gonna open fire and i dont care
if i'm on your six your 3 o'clock or head to head

Waffle · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:08:14 PM »

ditto shubie -

read somewhere about the p47 pilots doing the same thing to 109s - if they were gonna get bounced, they'd turn and HO em

ICU2 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:18:59 PM »

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HO shots are artificially easier in AH than IRL and that allows far lesser skilled players to shoot down better players by leveraging this "feature."

If it is easier in AH for a noob, then wouldn't it be even easier for a 'vet'?

I agree with Autopilot, a maneuvering fight is a lot more fun than flying straight and having one pass at someone.

SlapShot · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:27:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rshubert
I was just reading last night that the STANDARD response to an attack by a 190 on a spit 5 was to turn and offer an HO. I'll get the book citation for you tonight.

That still won't make it "normal" when considering all the other planes that flew and fought

Spiked · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:36:31 PM »

This being only the beginning of my third week in AH (my first flight sim of any kind - so still figuring out what I can do in a plane) I can honestly tell you I hate HO's. I enjoy the challange of trying to work for position and the shot .. and I am starting to get the feel for it a bit. (Course I have had my prettythang handed to me more than a few times in such manners that still has me shaking my head)

What I do have problems with is deciding on how to get out of a HO. Being new .. and clearly less skilled than 90% of the population here ... I have tried a few different methods ... ussually resulting in my tail getting shot off .. or pilot wounded. So what normally now happens is ... Evilbish01 or Evilrook01 heads into HO position ... and I "freeze" unable to decide what to do. In the end I wind up crossing my fingers and mashing the fire button because its to late to do anything else. Lose more of em than I win ... and almost always come out of it in bad shape regardless.

Any vets want to share tried and true methods of moving out of HO situation (without getting tail shot off of course) would be appreciated.

Pooface · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:38:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rshubert
I was just reading last night that the STANDARD response to an attack by a 190 on a spit 5 was to turn and offer an HO. I'll get the book citation for you tonight.

they only did that because the 190's were faster, and presented a big threat if they were on your tail. so they would go head on to make sure the 190's had their sights on them for as little time as possible. then they'd rely on better turning ability and acceleration to turn fight the 190's to death. they wouldn't go head on to take a shot, they'd do it to make the closure a lot faster, making it a harder shot

SuperDud · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:43:42 PM »

zomg I'll HO joo!

Just play the game the best you can. If you have to resort to the HO for a victory, then do it. I rarely get caught in a HO situation that I don't want to be in.

Pooface · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2006, 04:51:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Spiked
This being only the beginning of my third week in AH (my first flight sim of any kind - so still figuring out what I can do in a plane) I can honestly tell you I hate HO's. I enjoy the challange of trying to work for position and the shot .. and I am starting to get the feel for it a bit. (Course I have had my prettythang handed to me more than a few times in such manners that still has me shaking my head)

What I do have problems with is deciding on how to get out of a HO. Being new .. and clearly less skilled than 90% of the population here ... I have tried a few different methods ... ussually resulting in my tail getting shot off .. or pilot wounded. So what normally now happens is ... Evilbish01 or Evilrook01 heads into HO position ... and I "freeze" unable to decide what to do. In the end I wind up crossing my fingers and mashing the fire button because its to late to do anything else. Lose more of em than I win ... and almost always come out of it in bad shape regardless.

Any vets want to share tried and true methods of moving out of HO situation (without getting tail shot off of course) would be appreciated.

simple one, and the most effective is to just push the nose down a little if you're going right for each other. its harder to shoot, and won't always work, but you dont loose e, you gain some, which you use right after by doing a straight immelman onto his six, while he begins his turn. you follow in lead pursuit, and turn inside him, closing the gap, and blast him to bits. works a lot of the time for me. and in the event that that doesnt work and the dweeb still manages to get you in ho, you get on 200 and shout at the dweeb for hoing you when you blatantly wanted to fight. most people get very annoyed by HO dweebs, so you're sure to have plenty of support.

remember, its not only how great a pilot you are, but how good you are at putting lame dweebs in their place on ch 200 lol

Saxman · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:13:54 PM »

Turning and offering a ho is a sure way to distract ANY guy, not just a 190 pilot.

Oh, wait, I'm thinking the wrong kind of ho!

AutoPilot · « **Reply #25 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:22:11 PM »

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If he has alt you just offered him a canopy shot.

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Co alt, you gave him the advantage by pushing your nose down and a shot.

Most that agree with you usually end up virtually dead.The whole point of diving under them is too make them go low and think they are gonna get a canopy shot,which makes them target fixed and they are more target fixed than they are flying right.

Granted it takes some practice to master this manuver but when mastered it works very well.But don't take my word for it you just keep on HO'ing

fartwinkle · « **Reply #26 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:35:38 PM »

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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
HO shots are artificially easier in AH than IRL and that allows far lesser skilled players to shoot down better players by leveraging this "feature." When you're new, it seems like a weird thing to gripe about. Once you get better you'll quickly get frustrated with it too.

A better player would not get suckerd in by a newby going for an HO.
Remember it takes to nutts to fill a sac.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:35:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rshubert
I was just reading last night that the STANDARD response to an attack by a 190 on a spit 5 was to turn and offer an HO. I'll get the book citation for you tonight.

Here's the danger in using the history as justification.

It WAS life and death for those guys. As a last resort you'd HO, but you wouldn't go looking for it. Make a slip and your life is over.

At no time in AH is anyone really dying so it doesn't take the same kind of, for lack of a better word, courage to take the risk that you'd miss, collide, etc.

If we die to a HO, we get a brand new plane and a brand new life in the game.

It just isn't the same thing.

JMFJ · « **Reply #28 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:43:17 PM »

Ho's are part of the game just as they were in real life. I have been HO'd by some of the so called best sticks in the game (of course I was enlightened that I HO'd them not the other way around). I find with time and experience the better I get at avoiding them, but there is still some you just can't avoid. Or you'll end up with a pilot wound or the butt of your plane falling off.

Sometimes it's just principle if some guy keeps upping p-series & f-series planes that only hold mg's and HO'n all the way through I have no problem abliging him in my 110 or hurricane, la7, etc. If you're dumb enough to bring MG to a Cannon fight deal with the conciquences.

ICU2- The guys flying for rank & prestige are the main complainers, In a way they are valid complaints. If you put in the time to aquire the skill to be a top stick in the game. You will find that there is only a handfull of players you will come up against that you can't whoop, but when greated with an HO skill goes out the window. It throws a huge chaos factor into the game, so the guys who have learned what needs to be done to get a 5 kill sortie and land it. Do not like being taken down by some joe shmoe throwing out hail-mary shots. There is no right and wrong, so don't let the highschool drama queens hold you back if you wanna HO do it to your little hearts content. But I'm sure that the longer you play you will lose interest because it's virtually impossible to control the outcome. If you want to be a truly good stick, you can't have luck be part of your game. Besides you will find that turning an encounter around and getting a kill on someones six that opened with a forced HO is 5 times more gratifying than a HO/Collision kill.

JMFJ

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #29 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:45:54 PM »

I remember reading somewhere several years ago that HO attacks were used at first but were later strongly advised against and al but given up on because it was leading to too many collisions.

In the game I do not consider myself to be among the elete pilots. But I dont think Im any slouch either.
When I first came here I used to go for the HO all the time.
Even on the boards here I used to say "if your in my gunsight, Im shooting"

During that time I found that 90% of the people I couldnt HO, I couldnt kill.
I decided to stop going for the HO and go more for position.
I died alot at first but I found that in the time I was spending trying to line my sight up and firing the HO shots I was now instead usig to position myself for my next move and then found myself getting better and better. And getting killed alot less then I did when I used to HO all the time.
Found the game more fun too. because it become more like a chess match then a point and click shoot em up.

I still HO occasionally but typically as a retaliation to someone trying to or having HO'd me.
Or if Im hopelessly outnumbered. But even then not always.

I have found that HO's are NOT always avoidable. Like someone else said about someone comming out of a turn or simply they get lucky i guessing which way your going to avoid it.

I know I know technically thats not an HO shot but a deflection shot. Sorry but I still consider deflection shots of only a few degrees an HO.

For that matter probably 95% of all HO shots are technically deflection
shots because its very rare that planes actually approach each other are a 0 degree angle from one another. That doesnt mean its not an HO