Author Topic: remember the 109  (Read 5794 times)

Offline Howitzer

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remember the 109
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2006, 03:24:10 AM »
The issue isn't whether or not the 109 was a good fighter in WWII and how it matched to the US planes.  The issue is whether or not the new 109 models in the game are worth their salt against the other planes IN THE GAME.  Frankly, I used to love the old G10, if you flew it right it could turn well, you could climb like a rocket, and it was great if you could get your oponent into a vertical scissors or use slashing attacks.

The new models have horrible visibility which is matched by planes such as the fm2.  The k4 has some serious stability issues, and although it can climb, as it loses speed it gets real heavy real quick which is something the old g10 didn't do.  I love lobbin taters so the loss of gondolas wasn't a factor, but it sure hindered the F model in my opinion.  That old F was a sweet ride and could match the old spit 5 in turns.  Now it seems to be a shell of what it used to be being underpowered, under gunned, and suffering from the same stability issues.

I see some guys still fly the 109s with some frequency, but I mega kill sprees from guys like Nath, Wetrat, Apar, etc with the old g10, where now it doesn't seem so commonplace.  Something has definetely crippled those models in comparison to the other planes in the game.  Just my take on it.

Offline Charge

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remember the 109
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2006, 05:19:04 AM »
"morpheus, REALLY on the next update 109 will be allowed faster deploying flaps?"

Why? They were handcranked and not very fast to deploy in the first place?

"My crystal ball forsee a crying fest when flaps do not turn the 109 into the uber plane some expect it to be."

Of course, that would simply be too much for some people. Imagine the amount of crying if it would. :p

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Offline killnu

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remember the 109
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2006, 06:03:28 AM »
im sorry, but i love the G14, beside known issues with it, top speed and flaps, it flies great.  It can turn ok, not great, but ok.  it is not a spit.  when i flew the K4, it zoomed great, and the 30mm makes for a nice explosion, when i hit with it.  I just dont think you can expect to turn low and slow in a furball with spits and expect to win them all.  against lesser sticks, sure, but when you meet a semi compentant guy in a spit, you may be in over your head.  
all this crap about brining G10 back is useless, quit crying, enjoy the 2 planes ya got.  they are beauties.

this is from a P38 junkie who is slowly converting.:aok
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storch

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remember the 109
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2006, 06:21:07 AM »
good for you killinU.  the allied stuff is just way too easy to fly and not as much to me.  and you are absolutely right on those counts.

Offline Angus

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remember the 109
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2006, 06:57:18 AM »
The flaps were handcranked with some 8 (?) revolutions on the wheel from fully up to down.
So if the flaps are "fixed", they will deploy slower.
But they should be deployable at higher speeds, as already pointed out in the 109 Flaps thread.

Good and bad...

But,  - I rather like the 109 in AH anyway ;)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Morpheus

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remember the 109
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2006, 07:24:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
"morpheus, REALLY on the next update 109 will be allowed faster deploying flaps?"

Why? They were handcranked and not very fast to deploy in the first place?

-C+


Make up your mind. Question or statement. :)
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Offline gofaster

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My 109 advice
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2006, 09:22:43 AM »
When I find my piloting skills starting to atrophy, I start flying the 109.  I figure if I can get kills in a 109 then I can get kills in anything.

The trick to the 109 is to think of it as a bolt-action gun; fire quick bursts and save your ammo.  The MGs are useless so your real measure of ammo will be the cannon rounds.  For all models, I bring 100% fuel and a drop tank, because you never know how far you'll have to go to find something to shoot down.  Its also a good idea to map your elevator trim to your stick to avoid loss of elevator control at high speed, and to increase turn rate a bit at speed.  Remember: WEP on when nose up, WEP off when nose down.  If you get slow enough that you can deploy flaps, you're probably going to get whacked by a Spitfire or N1k, but you have a pretty good chance against a Mustang or Spit XIV, depending on attitudes, positions, relative speeds, and pilot skill.  Mustangs are particularly vulnerable to overshooting their targets, so as the 'stang flies past, you can hit WEP and get off a quick shot before he gets out of range. Don't forget to use rudder to correct for engine torque.

109F: Short range fighter, works best without gondolas, best forward visibility of the group but can't see out the back very well.  You can expect to get snuck up on from behind quite a bit if you don't kick rudder to clear your baffles from time to time.  Only fire at or under d400.

109G2: Leave the gondolas at home. Fly it like a 109F. Its a nimble little plane.  Great roll rate at speed but will stiffen up if speed gets over 300 or so.  As with the 109F, only fire at or under d400.

109G6: Engine torque will really mess with the stability, particularly when using WEP. It'll want to snap to the left unless you apply counter stick and/or rudder. You can consider gondolas, but if you do then you might be better off in a G14. Rear visibility is improved.  If you have a problem controlling your speed, then take the G6 over the G14 as it is slightly slower and less likely to nose-plant into the ground if you get stuck in an extended dive.  Just remember that if you're bringing gondies then you can expect to pay a weight penalty.

109G14: Gondolas make great counter-balances to the engine torque and also improve your lethality.  You'll pay a bit with loss of top-end speed, but I consider this a good thing since the 109 will stiffen as you get fast.  Gondolas also improve the cone of fire so you have a little leeway to the left and right of the pipper.  You're not going to outrun a Mustang, Typhoon, 190D, or LA-7 anyway (depending on starting speeds and rate of descent), but you still have a shot at destroying them before they destroy you so don't be afraid to engage.  The 109 motor has a lot of pull to it with WEP, so it can accellerate a bit better than a Mustang.  Its a good idea to use tracers, for two reasons.  One, bullet drop-off takes some getting use to, and two, if you find that your quarry is out-running you, you can use the nose MGs to "tickle" your target into turning and allowing you to close the gap, then finish him with your cannons.  He won't be able to distinguish MG rounds from cannon rounds.

109K: I haven't flown this one much. I never had much luck with the 30mm when it was a G10 due to my poor marksmanship.  I do remember it being nose-heavy so I assume that carried over with the introduction of the K model.

Ok, that's enough to get you started.

Offline Charge

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remember the 109
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2006, 10:11:25 AM »
Sry Morph.

They were handcranked and not very fast to deploy in the first place!

I doubt if any plane of that era had "fast" flaps but I think a handcrank is the slowest way of deploying them. At least if you can rotate the wheel only 90 deg at a time.

That is my impression of the matter. I wouldn't mind if I'm wrong in this particular matter... :D

-C+
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Offline USHilDvl

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remember the 109
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2006, 10:18:44 AM »
Just to pop back to the ME vs Bf thing for a minute...

Just saw something about this recetly, so it's fresh in my mind.

Bf (someone else already posted the correct German) was a derivation of the name of the original design house, which employed Willy Messerschmitt (who designed the 109).  Problem was, she was designed and offered to the German govt in the mid 1930's, and ole' Willy was NOT in good favor at that time.

The 109 actually won a design competition, but Willy was forbidden from building them.  Only his competitors were granted production licenses.

Ultimately, the 109 proved itself a superior aircraft (of it's day) and Willy Messerschmitt came to be highly favored.  It was then suggested that the name of the organization be changed to Messerschmitt.

As I recall, both Bf and Me were considered acceptable and interchangeable, and remain so to this day.

Maybe an erroneous detail somewhere, but I'm pretty certain that's the gist of it.


Offline Morpheus

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remember the 109
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2006, 10:21:59 AM »
One thing you have to remember C, is that regardless of how fast they can deploy, the speeds at which they are "allowed" to deploy at are far from correct.
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Offline Angus

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remember the 109
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2006, 10:52:38 AM »
So, if they are corrected:
1: They deploy very much slower than they do
2: They deploy, to some certain extent, at speeds they do not right now.

Correct?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Wmaker

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remember the 109
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2006, 11:05:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
But,  - I rather like the 109 in AH anyway ;)


For someone who likes the 109 you sure don't fly it much in the MA.

You keep saying how "great" the 109s feel and yet you have only couple of kills in them per tour more deaths than kills actually. You keep saying how "sweet" the 109s are and you barely fly it.

You fly a sortie or two in a 109 per tour so that you can keep saying your a Spit/109-guy (your own words) here in the BBS...and keep repeating that "109 is sweet, 109 is sweet..."?
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Offline Krusty

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Re: My 109 advice
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2006, 11:18:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
When I find my piloting skills starting to atrophy, I start flying the 109.  I figure if I can get kills[SNIP]


Gofaster I think you haven't flown the 109s since the update. Your information might be outdated. My take:

-109F has no gondies, its view is just as bad (worse?) as the rest of the 109s after their face lift.

-109g2: only reason to take it is the gondolas now (which differentiates the F4/G2, however)

-109g6: rear view now sucks, has standard canopy. For that matter, front view sucks too. The torque is no more a problem on the G6 than the G14 and K4, that is if you're low and slow with flaps out and trying a nose high spiral you'll be flopping big time, but then so will all 109s at this point, nothing new here. That's not engine related, that's plane related instability.

G14: Well it currently sucks. It's basically the G6 we used to have, and not much faster. I've got a few bomber formations under my belt in a G14 but still nothing spectacular.

K4: sucks. period. flops about, horribly unstable, at a worse rate than the old G10 did. The stats might be the same but some bug was introduced where the plane can't remain in level flight without autopilot [/hyperbole]

Offline Karnak

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remember the 109
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2006, 11:21:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
good for you killinU.  the allied stuff is just way too easy to fly and not as much to me.  and you are absolutely right on those counts.

Try the Mossie, P-40B or Spit I and you'll find that not all Allied aircraft are quite so easy.
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Offline gofaster

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remember the 109
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2006, 11:52:23 AM »
I've only flown the F, G2, and G6 a couple of times this month, none with gondies.  Most of my 109 time has been the G14 with gondies.  I haven't flown the K at all.

The F's forward visibility is better than the others because the front paning isn't as thick (less armour up front).  The G6 has the clear-glass armour headrest but same canopy, so the rear-view is a bit better than the F and G2.  G2 is the worst for visibility, both front and back.

Right now, I think the G14 is probably the best all-around fighter in the 109 line.

If only the G10 came back as it was...