Author Topic: WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today  (Read 770 times)

Offline Brooke

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« on: January 28, 2006, 03:53:21 AM »
Today (Saturday, Jan. 28th) there is a talk at the Museum of Flight near Seattle by Alexander Vraciu and James Duffy, two US WWII aces, and two other participants in the Marianas battle.

I thought I'd mention it in case there are other Aces High pilots in the Seattle area who might be interested in attending.

Offline ROC

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2006, 05:41:11 PM »
Here's looking forward to a Brooke Style AAR of the get together.
ROC
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Offline ChopSaw

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2006, 05:19:44 AM »
Dang.  I'm just reading this now.  Wish I'd paid more attention to the museums magazine.  Too busy in AH I guess.

Offline Brooke

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 06:37:55 PM »
On Saturday, January 28th, 2006, I went to a talk at the Museum of Flight (http://www.museumofflight.org) in Seattle.  It was a panel discussion with veterans of the Battle of the Philippine Sea, which took place on June 19th and 20th, 1944.  This was the last large-scale carrier-to-carrier battle of WWII and is often referred to in the US as the “Marianas Turkey Shoot.”  I don’t like calling it that, though, as it seems to me a disrespectful name, as if it wasn’t a life-and-death struggle for many Americans or as if the Japanese who fought and died in it posed no threat.

In attendance were author Barrett Tillman as moderator of the discussion, Hellcat ace James Duffy, Hellcat ace John T. Wolf, Avenger pilot Warren Omark, and landing-signal-officer John Harper.  Alexander Vraciu, one of the leading Navy aces, was scheduled to be there, but due to illness could not attend.

The event started with Barrett Tillman giving a brief history of the Marianas battle, giving information on the lead up to the battle, on various commanders in the battle, and about various participants in the battle.  He was a very interesting speaker and had a lot of historical photographs to show during his introduction, including wartime photos of all of the panelists.  One interesting thing he mentioned was the the US put a battleship group out in front of the carriers, so that they would be the first big ships the Japanese pilots would see.  Most Japanese pilots who got through the fighter screens did indeed go after the battleships and did not press through them to the carriers.  After his introduction of the battle and of the pilots, he turned over discussion to each of them in turn.

First up was James Duffy, Hellcat pilot of VF-15 with 5 kills.  VF-15 was the squadron led by David McCampbell, leading Navy ace.  VF-15 was flying off of the Essex.  (The following, I believe, was part of his story.  It’s possible that I am misremembering, and it was John Wolf who related it.  If so, I sincerely apologize, but I didn’t take notes and am going on memory here.)  He talked about his flight of four attacking an airfield in the area.  Two of the Hellcats were to attack aircraft down low and on the field, and two were reserved for top cover at about 12k.  He was one of the cover planes.  As they got into the area, though, instead of there being almost no aircraft up, there was a large circling mass of planes from about 12,000 feet on down.  He said it looked like buzzards circling in the air.  He was concerned about the two pilots who went in low.  He and the other cover pilot dove in to attack.  He made a pass on one Zero, and got hits into its tail, but pulling as hard as he could (since he was going so fast), he couldn’t get the nose up enough to walk the shots up the fuselage.  He climbed back up after this run and came down for another.  He pursued this one, got shots into the cockpit area, and the cockpit erupted in flames.  The Zero snapped into a spin and spiraled down into the ground.  He climbed back up again, came back around, and even though total elapsed time in the fight by this point was maybe a minute, there was no one around that he could see – everyone had dispersed.

He talked about how the Hellcat was a much better plane that the Zero, as it was faster, could climb better, and could take more damage.  He said that they didn’t dogfight with the Zeros, as the Zero could outturn the Hellcat at lower speeds by a lot; but as long as they kept their speed up, they had a lot of advantages over the Zero.

Second was John T. Wolf, Hellcat pilot of VF-2 (the “Rippers”) with 7 kills.  VF-2 was flying off the Hornet.  He talked about some of the choices people make in war.  During the battle, one of the planes in his flight was hit, and its pilot bailed out.  Although he was completely out of ammunition by that time, Wolf stayed in the area circling, calling out the position to assist in the pilot getting picked up.  After some circling, he noticed a Japanese pilot parachuting down seeming right on top of the US pilot.  Wolf was worried that this would endanger the US pilot.  So he flew his plane through the Japanese pilot’s chute.  When he landed, portions of the chute were still attached to his aircraft.  He wasn’t sure if that action was the right thing to do, but he pointed out that in battle, you have to make those sorts of decisions and hope that it is the right thing.  The pilot who bailed out, for whom Wolf had killed the enemy parachutist, was captured by the Japanese on a nearby island and beheaded.

He also talked about a time he was flying along and spotted a Zero ahead and above him, flying through some cloud cover.  He pulled up into the cloud to go after the Zero, then thought that such a maneuver wasn’t such a good idea, since he couldn’t see anything in the cloud.  He also didn’t want to come out of the cloud in front of the Zero, so he cut back on throttle.  When he came out of the cloud, the Zero was in front of him.  The Zero saw him and started to maneuver around some.  Wolf just cut back throttle some more and let the Zero maneuver around in front of him and stayed on its tail (I assume the Zero was doing rolls, not hard turning).  At one point, the Zero rolled inverted and started down.  Now Wolf followed and got ready to take a shot when he noticed that it didn’t look like the Zero would be able to pull out of the split s before hitting the water, so he broke off and watched the Zero crash into the water.  A little after that, he noticed a parachute in the air.  It turned out that the Zero pilot had bailed out when the plane had rolled inverted.  Wolf was puzzled because he hadn’t fired a shot.  Also, at that time, they were 150-200 miles out to sea, and he figured there was no way the Japanese pilot would get picked up out in the middle of the ocean.

Third was Warren Omark, Avenger pilot of VT-24, flying off the Belleau Wood.  He talked about his flight’s attack on a Japanese carrier.  They (four of them) were flying toward the target area, broke out of some clouds and spotted the carrier.  The flight leader, George T. Brown, ordered the four planes to attack from different directions, so they spread out and did so, without any fighters, divebombers, or other torpedo bombers in the area.  Omark said it was terrible to have to approach ships at 250 ft. altitude, at low speed, straight and level, and just sit there while you were getting shot at by an enormous amount of antiaircraft fire, but that’s what you did.  He also talked about how hard it was to judge aim and when to drop your torpedo, as it was all just by eye and involved a lot of guesswork.  He attacked the carrier from the rear quarter, and then broke away to get out of the area.

During the attack run, Brown’s plane got mauled by AA and caught on fire.  The crew of the plane, George Platz and Ellis Babcock, tried to reach Brown on the intercom, but got nothing back.  They decided to bail out.  The Mae West lifejacket belonging to one of them had been punctured by flak, so they both clung to the one working lifejacket.  They were in the middle of the Japanese fleet, and at one point got caught in the wake from a Japanese battleship and got tossed around.  They survived the night in the water and luckily got spotted by a seaplane the next day.  They witnessed the Japanese carrier that they attacked sink.  It was the Hiyo.  Omark’s rear-quarter torpedo hit the Hiyo and was in whole or part repsonsible for the sinking.  The Hiyo was the only Japanese ship sunk during “the mission beyond darkness.”

On the way back to the carrier, Omark spotted Brown’s plane.  Apparently, the fire had gone out.  Omark could see Brown’s plane maneuvering a bit aimlessly.  Omark maneuvered over to Brown and communicated with him (I assume through hand signals) for Brown to join up on Omark, so that Omark could lead him back to the US carriers.  Omark could see that Brown’s arm was bloody and knew that Brown was severely wounded.  This was during the famous late raid of the Marianas battle, though, where the US found the location of the Japanese forces and launched a raid late in the day and at extreme range knowing that the planes would be returning in darkness and that many would run out of fuel before they could make it back.  By this time, it was getting very dark, and although Brown had joined on Omark, at one point, Omark looked back around, and Brown was gone in the darkness.  That was the last anyone ever saw of George T. Brown.

Omark continued back to where he thought the US carriers should be.  Again, it involved a lot of guesswork in those days.  When he got there, it was only open ocean.  He called on his radio, and got a response.  The response said that the carrier group would send up a night fighter to come find him and point him in the right direction.  Omark said he was so very happy and thankful when he saw a night fighter show up on his wing and point him in the right direction.  He didn’t know the night-fighter pilot’s name, but the moderator and author, Barrett Tillman, had done research and was able to tell Omark who that night-fighter pilot was.  Omark made it back to a carrier, but now he had to land.  For the 10-15 minutes prior to making it back to the carrier, his fuel gauge had been showing empty.  So, he was expecting his engine to stop at any moment.  As he turned on final for a landing, another plane was approaching for a straight-in landing.  Omark said his thought at that moment was “No way!” and he kept on approach.  The other plane broke off, and Omark landed successfully in the dark.  Afterwards, he asked the refuelers how much fuel was remaining in his Avenger.  They told him there was none in his tanks.

[continued in part 2]
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 07:12:08 PM by Brooke »

Offline Brooke

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2006, 06:38:32 PM »
[part 2, continued from part 1]

He told another story about a day he was on anti-submarine patrol in response to an audience question about whether or not pilots and crew were friends who associated during the war.  Carriers would routinely launch an Avenger loaded with depth charges.  The Avenger would patrol around and depth charge any enemy submarine they saw in the area.  On this day, he was doing a launch without a catapult.  The aircraft launchers would take into account the ship speed, wind, aircraft load, etc. and make a judgment on where to place the aircraft so that it could make it into the air.  Omark wasn’t very certain in their judgment, though, as planes launched this way sometimes didn’t make it off the end of the deck with flying speed.  When that happened, the plane could plunge into the water, killing the crew.  At any rate, this is how he was to launch, so he did so.  About three quarter’s the way down the deck, his engine started to malfunction, so he had to make a split-second decision:  stomp hard on the brakes and hope that he could stop before the end of the deck or go off the end and try for a ditch.  He did the latter.  He went off the end, turned right some to get out of the way of the carrier, and did a beautiful ditch.  A picture of his ditch was even shown on the cover of a military publication on how to do a ditch.

Right after the ditch, he climbed out of the plane and got on the wing.  The radioman and gunner were also getting out of the plane.  The gunner had inflated a raft and was partially in the water getting into the raft.  Unfortunately, unknown to them, the ditch had ripped open the bomb bay doors and broken loose the depth charges.  The depth charges are armed by having pins or wires pulled, so when they sank from the ditched Avenger, they armed.  At this point, the depth charges went off.  Exploding depth charges blast water a hundred feet in the air, and the shock wave in the water is powerful enough to kill people if they are in the vicinity and even partially submerged, like the gunner was.  Omark and the gunner were blown into the air and came back down near the life raft.  The gunner was in bad shape.  Omark got him into the raft, and the two of them were picked up by one of the screening destroyers.  The gunner died on the destroyer.  The radioman was never found.  This story was a tough one for Omark to tell because he was friends with his crew, and understandably he got very emotional about it.

Fourth was John Harper.  He was a landing-signal officer (LSO) on the Belleau Wood but before that was a Hellcat pilot with two kills.  He talked about the night-time landing of planes returning from that late strike, during which he was the on-duty LSO.  He talked about it being difficult to judge aircraft attitudes at night – like talked about before, these things required a lot of judgment and feel.  They had spotlights lighting up the flight deck, and a spotlight available to shine on the incoming aircraft to better see it’s attitude, although I got the feeling that they didn’t use that one much as they probably didn’t want to blind the pilot.  During one approach, there was a plane coming in, and it was too high.  Harper raised his arms, the signal for “you are too high,” and the plane went higher.  He and another guy with him at the time thought that was very odd.  The guy with Harper said that the Japanese have opposite high/low signals compared to the US, so Harper had a spotlight put on the plane.  The spotlight clearly showed the rising-sun Japanese symbol.  Harper remarked about that on the communication gear, and the Belleau Wood turned off all its lights from that point on.

Later, in the audience, a person asked if Harper had been on the Belleau Wood when it was hit by a Kamikaze later in that year.  Harper said that he had been and that he remembers it well because he carried a horribly burned crewman away from the damage on that day.

This was truly an excellent panel discussion.  It really brought forth a mix of emotion that is most strongly conveyed in person.  Typically, we Aces High pilots have seen lots of documentaries and read a lot of WWII history.  A discussion in person by people who were there is something else.  In the future, when I find out about such things, I will post here to alert Aces High pilots in the Seattle area.

As an aside on Tillman’s books, I think Aces High pilots might really like some of them.  I bought a few of his books at the bookstore at the museum after the talk, and I especially recommend for Aces High pilots the Osprey Combat Aircraft series.  These books cover particular aircraft – the history of the aircraft, information about the people who flew them, and information about battles in which the aircraft participated.  I got one about the TBM Avenger and one about the F6F Hellcat, which he wrote.  There are many others on a wide assortment of aircraft by various authors – they even have them for the Yak-9’s and La’s.

Offline Brooke

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2006, 07:10:36 PM »
Also, interestingly, during Tillman's presentation, he showed a picture of Lt. R. P. Gift, Avenger pilot in VT-28, in the ready room of the Monterey after landing from the "mission beyond darkness."

After the panel discussion, one of the audience members spoke up and said "I'm Lt. Gift, and I'm glad to see a picture of me up there in your presentation."

When I bought a few books at the bookstore, I got them signed by all the panelists.  At the signature table -- maybe he was a local like R. Gift -- was Clayton Kelly Gross, a Mustang ace (6 kills) of the 354th Fighter Group.  I asked him to sign as well.  He asked me if I had any Mustang book with me, but I didn't because I didn't know he'd be at the table.  He signed my Avenger book and my Hellcat book and remarked that people are going "to wonder what the hell I'm doing in Navy books." :)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 07:18:46 PM by Brooke »

Offline WindX

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2006, 12:31:25 AM »
Awesome read Brooke!!!!!!:aok :aok :aok

Offline SKJohn

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2006, 06:11:04 AM »
I just started reading Tillman's book on the Marianas TUrkey Shoot.  Good read so far, but then all the others of his I've read have been also.
WOuld have loved to attend that presentation - but a little far from Phoenix.
BTW - we're still PO'ed at you Seattle guys for stealing our CHamplain Fighter Museum from us - give it back!!!!!:)

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2006, 07:01:38 AM »
Great read Brooke Thanks for posting that.  If I may say, a subscription to "Flight Journal" is also a good idea.  Mr Tillman is a regular contributor to that publication.

Offline Brooke

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2006, 01:57:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SKJohn

BTW - we're still PO'ed at you Seattle guys for stealing our CHamplain Fighter Museum from us - give it back!!!!!:)


Ah, yes!  Thank you for those wonderful planes from your collection!  Tell you what.  If you are ever in the Seattle area, you are welcome to stay at our place in the guest room, and I'll take you to see them.

Offline ROC

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WWII Aces talk at Museum of Flight today
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2006, 05:22:02 PM »
Great AAR Brooke, finally got a break and could read it.

Thanks!
ROC
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