Author Topic: Twice Victimized  (Read 1472 times)

Offline Silat

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« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2006, 09:10:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Silat my freind.  Promoting abstinence is not allways a bad thing.  Some people are hell bent on their ideology and weather you respect that or not it's what they do.  To say they don't care about rape victoms (wich is a seperat issue from condom use) is flat out inflamatory when they are the first ones to creat policy about said victoms and leave it up to the states to decide on contraversial topics.  

Again BDS.  Get yourself checked out.   ;)




BDS>>?? WHat is that?

Abstinence is a great theory. Aint happening Guns. Never has. But if this admin is going to promote then they must show all options. Not just those advocated by the religious right...............
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2006, 09:17:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
BDS>>?? WHat is that?

Abstinence is a great theory. Aint happening Guns. Never has. But if this admin is going to promote then they must show all options. Not just those advocated by the religious right...............


BDS

Quote
Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush.


You are skewing the issue here.  It's not about abstinence, it's about prescription medication wich to some could be considered contraversial.  Is Bush pandering to his base?  Yes he is, but he's not outlawing it, he's leaving it up to the local states to decide.  That's HARDLY not caring about rape victoms.


If Hillary can call congress a plantation in front of a black audience then Bush can write rules delegating issues important to his base to the state.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2006, 12:26:13 AM »
Quote
Abstinence is a great theory. Aint happening Guns. Never has. But if this admin is going to promote then they must show all options. Not just those advocated by the religious right...............


It isn't?  The catholic church is in one country in africa (I forget which right now).  But they promote abstinence til marriage and their country is the only one out there with decreasing Aid's rates.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2006, 10:29:44 AM »
silat.... the basic difference is that you believe that government should be in every facet of our lives and I believe that it should be in allmost none.

I have nothing against a morning after pill if it is safe.   I have nothing against any doctor explaining all the options to anyone including a rape victim but I do have a problem with a federal program that forces doctors to treat patients in any way other than a professional one.  I can't believe that there is any woman... "traumatized" or not, that doesn't realize that a rape might result in a pregnancy.

You claim that the pill is not well known..  Why is that?  Please don't tell me that planned parenthood doesn't have the resources to get the word out.  

Why is it so unknown here?  

Most police officers that are professionals will tell victims of assault.... esspecialy repeat victims.. that they should get a firearm and learn to use it and that firearms prevent from 1.5-3 million crimes a year.  

somehow I feel that... That kind of prevention would not meet with your approval tho.. I can't see you condeming finestein or boxer for disarming defenseless women tho.... Why don't finestein and boxer try to help these women?  don't you want a compassionate government?  One that is "concerned" about us?

and...abstinence will not work for everyone that is true but more abstinence will mean less problems.   It is a viable alternative for some.

lazs
« Last Edit: January 28, 2006, 10:35:22 AM by lazs2 »

Offline Silat

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« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2006, 01:45:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
silat.... the basic difference is that you believe that government should be in every facet of our lives and I believe that it should be in allmost none.

I have nothing against a morning after pill if it is safe.   I have nothing against any doctor explaining all the options to anyone including a rape victim but I do have a problem with a federal program that forces doctors to treat patients in any way other than a professional one.  I can't believe that there is any woman... "traumatized" or not, that doesn't realize that a rape might result in a pregnancy.

You claim that the pill is not well known..  Why is that?  Please don't tell me that planned parenthood doesn't have the resources to get the word out.  

Why is it so unknown here?  

Most police officers that are professionals will tell victims of assault.... esspecialy repeat victims.. that they should get a firearm and learn to use it and that firearms prevent from 1.5-3 million crimes a year.  

somehow I feel that... That kind of prevention would not meet with your approval tho.. I can't see you condeming finestein or boxer for disarming defenseless women tho.... Why don't finestein and boxer try to help these women?  don't you want a compassionate government?  One that is "concerned" about us?

and...abstinence will not work for everyone that is true but more abstinence will mean less problems.   It is a viable alternative for some.

lazs


Actually this is about this admin manipulating information and people (possibly illegally certainly immorally) to achieve their neo con aims.

I am pro gun Laz. So that doesnt hold water... And has nothing to do with this issue.
The admin has cut funds for any groups that want to mention alternatives. This is wrong. That is one of the points. They give money to religious groups who follow the neocon agenda.
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Silat

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Laz an example of this admin ....
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2006, 06:57:22 AM »
promoting abstinence which has been proven not to work over condom use. Fed money going to religious groups that support a religious belief not a realistic and scientific answer.
And yes this is using Fed funds to promote a narrow religious agenda.

Religious Groups Get Chunk of AIDS Money By RITA BEAMISH, Associated Press Writer
Sun Jan 29, 6:31 PM ET
 


President Bush's $15 billion effort to fight AIDS has handed out nearly one-quarter of its grants to religious groups, and officials are aggressively pursuing new church partners that often emphasize disease prevention through abstinence and fidelity over condom use.

Award recipients include a Christian relief organization famous for its televised appeals to feed hungry children, a well-known Catholic charity and a group run by the son of evangelist Billy Graham, according to the State Department.

The outreach to nontraditional AIDS players comes in the midst of a debate over how best to prevent the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. The debate has activated groups on both ends of the political spectrum and created a vast competition for money.

Conservative Christian allies of the president are pressing the U.S. foreign aid agency to give fewer dollars to groups that distribute condoms or work with prostitutes. The Bush administration provided more than 560 million condoms abroad last year, compared with some 350 million in 2001.

Secular organizations in Africa are raising concerns that new money to groups without AIDS experience may dilute the impact of Bush's historic three-year-old program.

"We clearly recognize that it is very important to work with faith-based organizations," said Dan Mullins, deputy regional director for southern and western Africa for CARE, one of the best-known humanitarian organizations.

"But at the same time we don't want to fall into the trap of assuming faith-based groups are good at everything," Mullins said.

The administration is beginning a broad effort to attract newcomers and distribute money for AIDS prevention and care beyond the large nonprofit groups that traditionally have led the fight.

The New Partners Initiative reserves $200 million through the 2008 budget year for community and church groups with little or no background in government grants. Some may have health operations in Africa but no experience in HIV work. Others may be homegrown groups in Africa that have not previously sought U.S. support.

"The notion that because people have always received aid money that they'll get money needs to end," Deputy U.S. global AIDS coordinator Mark Dybul said in an interview with The Associated Press. "The only way to have sustainable programs is to have programs that are wholly owned in terms of management personnel at the local level."

Large nonprofit groups involved in health and development projects typically enlist local religious groups because of their deep community ties.

The goal now is to penetrate hard-to-reach corners of the target countries — 13 in Africa, and Haiti and Vietnam — and bring aboard community and faith groups that previously lacked expertise to win grants, Dybul said.

Religious organizations last year accounted for more than 23 percent of all groups that got HIV/AIDS grants, according to the State Department. Some 80 percent of all secular and religious grant recipients were based in the countries where the aid is targeted.

Among those winning grants were:

_Samaritan's Purse, which is run by Graham's son, Franklin. It says its mission is "meeting critical needs of victims of war, poverty, famine, disease and natural disaster while sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ."
« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 06:59:29 AM by Silat »
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Silat

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« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2006, 06:58:06 AM »
_World Vision. The 56-year-old Christian organization is known for its TV appeals — some with celebrities such as game show host Alex Trebek — that asked people to support a Third World child.

_Catholic Relief Services. It was awarded $6.2 million to teach abstinence and fidelity in three countries; $335 million in a consortium providing anti-retroviral treatment; and $9 million to help orphans and children affected by HIV/AIDs. The group offers "complete and correct information about condoms" but will not promote, purchase or distribute them, said Carl Stecker, senior program director for HIV/AIDS.

_HOPE. The global relief organization founded by the International Churches of Christ recently brought comedian Chris Rock to South Africa for an AIDS prevention event. AIDS grants support HOPE in several countries.

_World Relief, founded by the National Association of Evangelicals. It won $9.7 million for abstinence work in four countries.

Most of the money in Bush's initiative goes to treatment programs, earning the administration praise for delivering lifesaving drugs and care to millions of HIV-infected patients.

For prevention, Bush embraces the "ABC" strategy: abstinence before marriage, being faithful to one partner, and condoms targeted for high-risk activity. The Republican-led Congress mandated that one-third of prevention money be reserved for abstinence and fidelity.

Condom promotion to anyone must include abstinence and fidelity messages, U.S. guidelines say, but those preaching abstinence do not have to provide condom education.

The abstinence emphasis, say some longtime AIDS volunteers, has led to a confusing message and added to the stigma of condom use in parts of Africa. Village volunteers in Swaziland maintain a supply of free condoms but say they have few takers.

"This drive for abstinence is putting a lot of pressure on girls to get married earlier," said Dr. Abeja Apunyo, the Uganda representative for Pathfinder International, a reproductive health nonprofit group based in Massachusetts.

"For years now we have been trying to tell our daughters that they should finish their education and train in a profession before they get married. Otherwise they have few options if they find themselves separated from their husbands for some reason," Apunyo said.

An AIDS-program pastor in Uganda explained his abstinence teaching to unmarried young people.

"Why give an alternative and have them take a risk?" asked the Rev. Sam Lawrence Ruteikara of the Anglican Church of Uganda, a U.S. grant recipient. "This person doesn't have a sexual partner, so why should I report too much, saying that in case you get a sexual partner, please use a condom. I am saying, please don't get a sexual partner — don't get involved because it is risky."

Secular activists say it is not realistic to expect all teenagers to abstain from sex and that teenagers also should be taught how to protect themselves.

U.S.-backed programs have spread abstinence and faithfulness education to more than 13 million people in Uganda, according to the State Department. Officials promote the nation as an "ABC" model, with its HIV infection rate down by more than half in a decade.

Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., said that on a tour of Uganda in January he saw pro-abstinence rallies and skits praising Bush, and U.S.-supported groups conducting house-to-house testing, care and counseling.

"The good news about the faith-based groups is not only the passion they bring to the work but it is the moral authority and the extended numbers of volunteers they can mobilize to get the word out," Smith said.

But Smith believes the administration is wrongly supporting some nonprofit groups. He and several other congressional conservatives wrote to Bush and the U.S. Agency for International Development, contending that several large grant recipients were pro-prostitution, pro-abortion or not committed enough to Bush's abstinence priorities.

The letters followed a briefing last year by Focus on the Family, run by Christian commentator and Bush ally James Dobson. The group's sexual health analyst, Linda Klepacki, said even some religious groups emphasize condoms over abstinence.

"We have to be careful that the president's original intent is being followed where A and B are the emphasized areas of the ABC methodology," she said.

Six congressional Democrats, in a letter last week to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, accused the conservatives of a distortion campaign that undermines a balanced approach to fighting AIDS.

"Their attack is based on a narrow, ideological viewpoint that condemns condoms and frames any attempt to reach out to high-risk populations as an endorsement of behaviors that these critics oppose," said Rep. Henry Waxman (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif.

USAID has declined to renew funding for two major AIDS-fighting consortiums, CORE and IMPACT, headed by organizations the conservatives targeted. Those two groups fund hundreds of community and religious-based organizations.

CORE, whose lead partner is CARE, is losing its central source of money, meaning its work survives only if it can win grants from individual USAID missions in target countries.

Family Health International, the lead organization of IMPACT, brought hundreds of local and religious groups into its $441 million project, but was told the administration wants new partners, said Sheila Mitchell, senior vice president of FHI's Institute for HIV/AIDS.

Dybul said the changes are in keeping with the shift to local groups. Any suggestion of political motivation is "inaccurate and offensive to people doing this work," he said. Millions of grant dollars still go to the groups that were criticized.

One grant was delayed when Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., last year complained about renewing $14 million to Population Services International, a leading nonprofit condom distributor.

The group's bingo-style games that teach Guatemalan prostitutes about safe sex misused funds "to exploit victims of the sex trade," Coburn said. Sen. Larry Craig (news, bio, voting record), R-Idaho, then wrote to praise PSI's work as "provably effective and efficient."

USAID divided the grant; condom distribution was separated into the smaller part so that religious groups could apply for the other part. PSI eventually won the larger grant. The second is outstanding.

Although administration critics frequently cite PSI as a group that fell from favor under the new initiative, "we have not been eviscerated," said Stewart Parkinson, a senior program analyst.

The group lost U.S. grants in Uganda and Tanzania but retained others. And Parkinson said he had no indication of political motivation.

___
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2006, 08:22:36 AM »
Ok.... now I get it... this is all about funding.  You say that because one group supports the morning after pill that cutting funding for them is in effect.....

victimizing women?  You don't show that the pill is safe.  You don't show why it is so little known... you don't show that your group is the only one...even if you use doctors... who is "responsible" enough to... (promote?) the morning after pill for rape victims.

I say let the doctors decide and let the women do their own research... we don't need to fund a group based on the fact that they promote one type of medication... a controversial one at that.

as for abstinence...  a small amount of abstinance makes a huge difference...  condoms do not work.  the proof is there.  saying that they do is probly increasing the problem... saying that abstinence is probly the only 100% effective method is telling the truth and helping the problem...

so...  those who say they can give you "safe" sex are.... lying and promting more dangerous behavior... And..those who say that abstinence or staying with one partner are the only guarnteed safe way and are promoting safer and better lives for everyone.  Right?

I believe in staying with one partner at a time that you trust.  I trust that a lot more than condoms say.   If everyone did it you would see a huge drop in unwanted pregnancies, disease and probly crime.

lazs