Gun overheat

[CAV]

If you hold the trigger down, the barrels heat up and begin to warp. Dispersion increases dramatically.Eventually the barrels warp so much that the lead is going everywhere.

Once when I was still in the Army I had a 50. Cal. run away on me...

The barrel went white hot.... rounds was landing behind & around my only tank.... 1 or 2 even went out and hit the front of the tank.

Oh yes they will cook off!.........

CAVALRY

[KD303]

There must be big differences between firing a .50 on the ground at 0 speed (BTW I'm not referring in any way to the experiences of the above posters who I'm assuming know their stuff) and firing one at 20,000 feet at 350 mph with regards to heating and cooling times. For realism, I'd have thought that these factors would need to be addressed.
I seem to remember early Hurricanes (as well as others) having problems with their guns freezing up at altitude and this being fixed by diverting hot air from the engine. So it seems that heat related problems were a two way street.
From the point of view of playing AH, I don't mind at all if my opponent rattles off all his ammo in one continuous spray at 1k. I'm much more afraid of the guy who manages to get close in, firing several short bursts.
Some of the great aces of WWII averaged something like 15 cannon shells expended per kill. This being because they didn't open fire until the enemy aircraft  filled the screen.
The only thing that might be partially solved (in my own opinion, of course) would be the continuous and deadly accurate streams of fire from the arse end of American bomber vics.

KD

[Big G]

Originally posted by mussie
Toad are you stating that from experience... ?

I was told once many moons ago that the idea of a bullet going off due to a fire (ie a box of bullets in a house fire) was highly unlikely.

Not having alot of experience in the area of fire arms though I would not know

If you fire long bursts from a  magazine fed weapon, such as an LMG then you have a chance of what's called a "runaway gun" rounds still being fed into the chamber as gas is ejecting the last round and the spring is loading another one into the chamber and on it goes.

If you fire burst in excess of 4-6 rounds per squeeze of the trigger from a  linked fed weapon such as the GPMG or the US M-60 then you have a chance of damaging the barrel by over heating, If you do this on a consistent basis then you would have to change the barrel after say, 250-400 rounds.
changing barrels while in contact is not good for the health or nerves.....

[frank3]

However the overheating of machineguns would've been a big problem, I've heard much more stories about guns freezing, especially in bombers.

One good story was about an F4U pilot who stumbled upon a Japanese divebomber.
Both the F4U's and the Japanese rearfiring guns were frozen.

The pilot downed the divebomber by chopping off the tail with it's propellor (must've been possible due to rice-paper construction)

This sounds unbelievable, but it was a true story. Don't know where to find it though.

[Karnak]

I think that modeling gun overheating is not a bad idea.  I don't know how much of an effect it would have on the way people fight in AH, but it is a documented problem with holding the trigger down.  It also seems that it would be fairly simple to create a generic "gun overheat" model.  I doubt that the information is available to model each gun type's overheating time.

Loddar,

You continue to fail to understand why I opposed your idea.

[Kweassa]

I think that modeling gun overheating is not a bad idea. I don't know how much of an effect it would have on the way people fight in AH, but it is a documented problem with holding the trigger down. It also seems that it would be fairly simple to create a generic "gun overheat" model. I doubt that the information is available to model each gun type's overheating time.

 Perhaps.

 However, I personally believe just getting rid of the ammo counter is a simpler, more efficient, more realistic, and more effective way of discouraging people from the main effect its introduction will have upon AH - namely, getting rid of "spraying" and "long-range sniping".

 Where's the need to model in a gun heat equation to the game, when just simply blacking out the ammo counters would do?

[Karnak]

I have advocated the removal of the ammo counters for a long, long time.

[Krusty]

and I have advocated their presence for a long, long, time

[Toad]

Removing the ammo counters would change some folks style and go unnoticed by others.

Some of the new cockpits have counters that are not in my normal "front" view when flying. It hasn't changed my style one bit. I generally fight until the guns go "click" anyway and I take any shot I think I can make. Seeing or not seeing counters hasn't changed that a bit.

For others it might make a difference. Those wrapped up in score or in saving their pixel life might fly more.....carefully.... and take less shots if they obsess about running out of ammo.

[Kweassa]

Removing the ammo counters would change some folks style and go unnoticed by others.

Some of the new cockpits have counters that are not in my normal "front" view when flying. It hasn't changed my style one bit. I generally fight until the guns go "click" anyway and I take any shot I think I can make. Seeing or not seeing counters hasn't changed that a bit.

For others it might make a difference. Those wrapped up in score or in saving their pixel life might fly more.....carefully.... and take less shots if they obsess about running out of ammo.

 It also depends on the plane you are flying - not every plane has thousands of rounds to fire. I certainly wouldn't like to waste precious 200~240 rounds of cannons in a shot I'm not sure I can hit.

[Toad]

Why would you ever pull the trigger if you don't think there's a chance you could hit?

There are "sure thing" shots and "should hit" shots and "maybe shots" and "probably not" shots and "no way" shots.

I'll take any of the first four if that is what the situation demands. It all depends. But it doesn't depend on ammo counters.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Toad
No, I'm saying it from first-hand anecdotal experience.

My father flew B-25C's in New Guinea for the 345th Air Apaches. His aircraft and the rest in the squadron had 8 forward-firing 50's.  When they low alt-raided Japanese airfields, they started shooting before the overflew the field boundary and held the gun button down all the way across the field. The guns overheated, sprayed .50's out in curving arcs (tracers, before you ask) AND were a hazard on the RTB because guns would "cook off". He said you had to be REAL careful not to point your nose at anyone in your formation for quite a long time after strafing a field that way.

If you'd like to talk to him and hear it first-hand let me know. I'll arrange a phone call for you.

He's posted on this BBS before, handle was Panther.  As in 501st Black Panthers, 345th Air Apaches.

The greatest reason for not shooting out the rifling in you MGs is not to give the armorers an excuse to slip something venomous into your bunk.

My regards,

Widewing

[Toad]

I feel sorry for the 345th's armorers.

IIRC, he said it was pretty much standard procedure to change out the entire Wing's nose mounted gun barrels after every mission.

It was just the way they did it. SOP. They were convinced that it reduced the willingness of the AAA gunners to stand to the guns as they came in.

Maybe. 8-10 B-25's line abreast with 8 .50's each blazing away would probably make me duck.