Author Topic: Flight 93 on A&E now (Read 1007 times)

Seagoon · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2006, 12:17:09 AM »

Hi Sandy,

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
Now I'm curious. Which abomination was that?

Munich.

Throughout the movie Spielburg conveys a heavy handed message of moral relativity between the athletes, the terrorists, and the Mossad agents. In fact the final message is clearly supposed to be "violence solves nothing" and that we should seek to understand and placate the "freedom fighters" rather than seeking to eradicate them.

As David Brooks put it in his NYT review of the film:

Quote

"But when it is political, Spielberg has to distort reality to fit his preconceptions. In the first place, by choosing a story set in 1972, Spielberg allows himself to ignore the core poison that permeates the Middle East, Islamic radicalism. In Spielberg's Middle East, there is no Hamas or Islamic Jihad. There are no passionate anti-Semites, no Holocaust deniers like the current president of Iran, no zealots who want to exterminate Israelis.

There is, above all, no evil. And that is the core of Spielberg's fable. In his depiction of reality there are no people so committed to a murderous ideology that they are impervious to the sort of compromise and dialogue Spielberg puts such great faith in.

Because he will not admit the existence of evil, as it really exists, Spielberg gets reality wrong. Understandably, he doesn't want to portray Palestinian terrorists as cartoon bad guys, but he simply doesn't portray them. There's one speech in which a Palestinian terrorist sounds like Mahmoud Abbas, but beyond that, the terrorists are marginal and opaque.

And because there is no evil, Spielberg gets the Israeli fighters wrong. Avner is an American image of what an Israeli hero should be. The real Israeli fighters tend to be harder and less sympathetic, and they are made that way by an awareness of the evil implacability of those who want to exterminate them.

In Spielberg's Middle East the only way to achieve peace is by renouncing violence. But in the real Middle East the only way to achieve peace is through military victory over the fanatics, accompanied by compromise between the reasonable elements on each side. Somebody, the Israelis or the Palestinian Authority, has to defeat Hamas and the other terrorist groups. Far from leading to a downward cycle, this kind of violence is the precondition to peace.

- SEAGOON

Seagoon · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2006, 12:19:49 AM »

Hi Shaky,

Quote

Originally posted by Shaky
Jeremy Glick calls his wife, Lyz, from Flight 93. He describes the hijackers as Middle Eastern- and Iranian-looking. According to Glick, three of them put on red headbands, stood up, yelled, and ran into the cockpit. He had been sitting in the front of the coach section, but he was then sent to the back with most of the passengers. Glick says the hijackers claimed to have a bomb, which looked like a box with something red around it. Family members immediately call emergency 9-1-1 on another line. New York State Police are patched in midway through the call. Glick finds out about the WTC towers. Two others onboard also learn about the WTC at about this time. Glick's phone remains connected until the very end of the flight. [Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/28/01 (B); MSNBC, 7/30/02; Toronto Sun, 9/16/01; Longman, 2002, pp 143]

Thanks. Sometimes truth seems more unlikely than fiction.

Note to airtravelers, when the men in first class begin to put on red headbands...

- SEAGOON

Debonair · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2006, 12:57:15 AM »

Nah the movie stunk because it was a spielberg flick.
Seagon, you seem quite up on studying these muslim guys, you have any doubt OBL is hiding out near Alamut? I said it 1st, i get the $25 million!
Whats the "spielburg" thing all about? i dont get it

-tronski- · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2006, 03:11:53 AM »

I'm sure one fo the passengers was a retired airline or airforce pilot

Quote

Originally posted by Debonair
Nah the movie stunk because it was a spielberg flick.
Seagon, you seem quite up on studying these muslim guys, you have any doubt OBL is hiding out near Alamut? I said it 1st, i get the $25 million!
Whats the "spielburg" thing all about? i dont get it

The problem is that Spielberg had the audacity to suggest that violence begets violence...

I prefer that very christian of attitudes Kill them all; for the Lord knoweth them that are his...

Tronsky

Jackal1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:46:06 AM »

Caught it when they reran it at midnight our time after getting of off the puter and propping up in bed for the last cig.......................I thought.
The movie had that lame, made for TV feel about it that I hate .....................but it was plenty good enough to start my blood boiling again. By the end of the movie it had taken me right back to the feeling I had on the day tis happened.
The wife was what I presumed , asleep on her side facing the TV. I didn`t realize that she was awake and watching until I noticed she was crying.
Anyone who thinks we don`t have a probelm securing our borders and screening those who enter our country should watch this movie..........and maybe a few clips of the actual twin towers footage.
To hell with anti-racial profiling. We know where the problem lies. Profile away.

FiLtH · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:01:17 AM »

Wasnt that already shown on the Discovery channel a few months ago?

midnight Target · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:54:02 AM »

So Seagoon, did you see "Munich"?

Or are you basing your review on a NYT editorial.

I'm with SOB on this one.

I watched the recreation (discovery channel?) not long ago and was inspired by the actions of the people on that flight. I was also struck by how much was not known. Any dramatization seemed hollow to me and unworthy of their memory.

Seagoon · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2006, 10:15:31 AM »

Debonair,

On September 5, 1972 at the Munich Olympics, Eight Palestinians members of Fatah (yes, the same group that just lost to Hamas) took 9 members of the Israeli team hostage, killing two athletes who fought them in the initial takeover. The next day at the airport, the German police attempted perhaps the worst planned and executed "hostage rescue" in history, the terrorists, true to their threats killed all the remaining hostages. Some of the Fatah members survived and one of the hostage takers, Jamal Al-Gashey is still alive and protected by our good friends the Syrians.

Spielburg's movie centers on the Israeli decision to track down and kill the remaining terrorists involved in the operation, but because Spielburg wants to convey the message that the proper response to violence is never violence, he tries to build an argument for moral equivalency on both sides. Were the athletes fathers whose darling children were orphaned? Well so were some of the Palestinians! You see its all relative, at heart all people are the same and basically good at heart, and in the end, the only monster is violent action. The current political message is pitifully easy to interpret - responding to Islamic terrorism including 9/11 by waging war on the Jihadis worldwide is never going to fix anything. We need to talk, they are after all just people like us, forced into violence by circumstances. If we understood and accomodated them, and they understood that we cared and were concerned and wanted to help, all this would stop. (In case anyone missed it in the movie, Spielburg has said as much in interviews)

Spielburg's philosophy is transparently inane and based only in a reality that exists in the minds of the Western intelligentsia. It has no room for ideologies that can only accept death or victory. For instance, for the Jihadi, the command to cleanse the Dar-El-Islam of infidel "oppressors" and then to see the Dar-El-Islam extended to the ends of the earth are the express commands of Allah to all Muslims. They believe this as passionately as I believe that "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." is the express command of God. Therefore they are as a willing to kill and die in the process of obeying Allah as I am willing to suffer persecution and even death in obeying the "Great Commission" by preaching the gospel.

- SEAGOON

Eagler · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2006, 12:07:40 PM »

saw about 30 minutes of it while on the treadmill last night .. had to change the channel

BigGun · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2006, 11:17:18 AM »

I saw part of it on last night, went to sleep though. Not because it wasn't good, just overly tired. Plan on seeing the rest of it when it comes on again.

One part near beginning I am going to pay attention to. I am pretty sure that when the flight was delayed, the pilot said they should be able to make up the time because of good tail winds. Not sure if that is what was said, could have been minor head winds, but think he said strong tail winds. Having flown east to west countless times, I know you never have tail winds.

Stringer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2006, 11:32:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
saw about 30 minutes of it while on the treadmill last night .. had to change the channel

Whew, I'm glad the angst it caused you didn't interrupt your treadmill work out.

deSelys · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2006, 12:04:16 PM »

Yeah yeah yeah, Seagoon, Spielberg hates jews, everybody knows it.

After all, he portrayed the SS as a bunch of perfect boy scouts in Schindler's List.

Because he doesn't condone a Mossad operation doesn't mean that he is a 'terrorist lovertm '.

All this religion stuff is killing your brain cells faster than sniffing bad glue.

rpm · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:53:04 PM »

I did the same thing, catching the midnight replay and getting hooked. It was a decent B movie. The story is what made it watchable. You could have made it using Terrence and Phillip and it would have been just as riveting.

~~to all those onboard. They were true americans.~~

dynamt · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2006, 10:24:13 PM »

I saw "Munich" the other night.
It struck me as almost a documentary of the way things happened. I really don't understand the opposition.

I remember the events well. Nothing in the movie surprised me a bit. The ineptness of the German rescue attempt was truly tragic. The movie does a very good job of portraying the assasination team as human and at times quite inept.

All in all an OK movie..if somewhat boring.

xrtoronto · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2006, 10:35:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dynamt
All in all an OK movie..if somewhat boring.

I heard it was a good movie, but a bit boring at times too
(I'll rent it in the spring when it's out on DVD)

Be interesting to see how well it does at the Academy Awards.