Airforce Police Officer Shot

[Hawklore]

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2006/february/ogrish-dot-com-suspect_shot_by_police.wmv

CHINO - A U.S. Air Force policeman who just returned from Iraq was shot several times by a sheriff's deputy late Sunday following a high-speed chase. The man, identified by family members as Elio Carrion, 21, was hospitalized at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton. Hospital officials would not release his condition, but the man's wife said he underwent surgery and was stable.

"He looks good. He's just very tired right now," said Mariela Carrion, a Louisiana resident who was visiting family in Pomona with her husband.

San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies released few details about what prompted the shooting. Sheriff Gary Penrod said in a prepared statement the department's homicide division was conducting a thorough investigation.

"As with all investigations, the circumstances involved in this shooting will be reviewed," Penrod said. "It would be inappropriate for me to make any additional comments until the investigation is completed."

The incident began about 10 p.m. when deputies saw the driver of a blue Chevrolet Corvette speeding at more than 100 mph through a residential area, deputies said.

Deputies tried to stop the driver, but he didn't pull over, sheriff's officials said. A short chase ensued, ending when the driver, Luis Fernando Escobedo, skidded and slammed into the block wall on Francis Avenue near Benson Avenue in Chino.


Also to those who arn't aware, the one shot was the passenger, and was attempting to calm the situation down.

Make your judge on what the officer tells the suspect to do before he fires.

My opinion:

This could of and should of been prevented by the cop maintaining his distance from the suspect.

I'm not an officer, but, distance = safety for you and the perp, common f**king sense right there.

Another thing noticed, he charges when he fires, connects with two shots fires 3.

[ChickenHawk]

Don't these losers ever watch America's Wildest Police Videos?  It always ends badly when you run.

[Hawklore]

Originally posted by ChickenHawk
Don't these losers ever watch America's Wildest Police Videos?  It always ends badly when you run.

You gotta realise, just because your the passenger in a vehicle thats running, dosn't mean your running from the cops, you'd prefer them to jump out to their death?

[ChickenHawk]

That's what I get for not reading your post close enough.  My bad.

Carry on.

[Golfer]

Ogrish is not a work safe link.  Maybe a disclaimer on that henceforth.

[ChickenHawk]

Originally posted by Golfer
Ogrish is not a work safe link.  Maybe a disclaimer on that henceforth.

Hence the reason I did not click on the link and got confused at to who was who.

[rpm]

I just watched the video on CBS Evening News.

Deputy: Get up, get up!

Carrion: OK, I'm getting up.

3 shots are fired by the deputy.

Suspended with pay? That deputy should be under arrest for Attempted Capitol Murder and put in genpop.

[ASTAC]

WTF??? I guy complies and gets shot?

Of course the pigs will cover it up saying that it appeared the guy had a weapon. But regardless he cannot justify 3 shots. I work law enforcement right now and at that range one shot and then reassess the situation..if he continues to be a threat then shoot again...anything else is excessive force. By the definition of "Deadly Force" the shots should have never been fired in the first place.



And they wonder why people don't like the cops.

[eagl]

Yea.  It certainly appears that the cop at the very least needs his badge and firearm carry rights yanked.  Chuck the fleeing driver in jail too, but that cop needs to find another line of work.

Reminds me of another video that went around, where a perp is already subdued and one cop is beginning to put on the cuffs, and a female cop walks up and puts a round into the concrete a few inches from the perp's head.  Oops.

[eagl]

ASTAC,

I disagree about the multiple shots...  CHP shoot technique is 3 shots, pretty much regardless of the situation.  It's on the theory that if you're shooting, you should be shooting to kill, and if you're shooting to kill then you better keep firing until the guy is dead.

3 "accidental" shots though... Well, as long as one shot is uncalled for, three isn't really all that much different especially if he's just carrying out training he learned on the firing range.  2 to the body, one to the head.

Good thing the cop didn't shoot too straight in addition to being a bit too excitable for the job.  I try to be understanding when a cop involved in a high speed chase gets a bit excited while applying cuffs and taking down a perp, but getting so excited that he blows away a complying suspect is not acceptable no matter how much adrenaline he's on after a pursuit.  They simply have to be better than that.

[ASTAC]

No department in the US would ever use "shoot to kill"

It's "Shoot center mas"

Often times that results in a kill...regardless from every story I've read on it now and watching the clip many times..there was nothing the victim did to warrant being shot. Then  kicked afterward while he was down.

I can't wait to see what that department sayd to try to justify it.

[eagl]

Watching the video again, it looks like the cop just wanted to shoot someone.  Hell, he had 2 talkative but complying suspects sitting on the ground...  Racially motivated attempted murder or just a flipped out cop?  Good damn thing the camera was on, otherwise the cop would be claiming that the guy jumped him.

As it is, a good lawyer is gonna go for attempted murder and I doubt the cop is gonna get any sympathy for shooting an AF SF troop who was a passenger and complying suspect after a high speed pursuit.

And ASTAC, you're simply not right on shoot policy.  My father was career California Highway Patrol and my brother is currently serving in the CHP, and their shoot policy is a combination of "shoot to stop", and "don't shoot if you aren't willing to kill".  In practice, that means 2 shots center of mass followed by one to the head.  The last time I discussed this with my Dad (a few years ago), they were training to that standard on the range, 3 shot groups with an assessment after each group.

The philosophy behind that shoot policy is very long, but it is based on a "safe distance" around the officer.  If you let an attacker inside the safe distance (about 20 ft if I recall correctly), that perp WILL get to the officer unless the officer makes a stopping shot in the first group.  A center of mass shot that does not connect with a major bone group (sternum or spine) will not cripple the attacker, and therefore a determined attacker, especially if they're on drugs, will make it to the officer and do some damage.  So rather than shooting 2 to the body and assessing which pretty much guarantees that the perp can get to the officer, they go 2 to the body and 1 to the head, and only then assess.

You can quibble about whether this is a "shoot to kill" or "shoot to stop" policy, but the weapons instructors are not going to teach a non-effective tactic to CHP officers.  If a CHP officer fires, it's very very likely to be in groups of three with the intent of connecting with a shot that results in an immediate stop, either a major bone in the torso, the spine, or the head.  Criminal apologists can quibble all they want about the policy, but CHP training teaches that shooting is by nature a lethal measure and should be treated as the last possible option, but once that step is required they should go for the quickest and safest (for the officer) stop possible.  Their tactic for that quick stop is lethal and effective, and no court or DA in the state of California is going to challenge the policy.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Hawklore
http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2006/february/ogrish-dot-com-suspect_shot_by_police.wmv

CHINO - A U.S. Air Force policeman who just returned from Iraq was shot several times by a sheriff's deputy late Sunday following a high-speed chase. The man, identified by family members as Elio Carrion, 21, was hospitalized at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton. Hospital officials would not release his condition, but the man's wife said he underwent surgery and was stable.

"He looks good. He's just very tired right now," said Mariela Carrion, a Louisiana resident who was visiting family in Pomona with her husband.

San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies released few details about what prompted the shooting. Sheriff Gary Penrod said in a prepared statement the department's homicide division was conducting a thorough investigation.

"As with all investigations, the circumstances involved in this shooting will be reviewed," Penrod said. "It would be inappropriate for me to make any additional comments until the investigation is completed."

The incident began about 10 p.m. when deputies saw the driver of a blue Chevrolet Corvette speeding at more than 100 mph through a residential area, deputies said.

Deputies tried to stop the driver, but he didn't pull over, sheriff's officials said. A short chase ensued, ending when the driver, Luis Fernando Escobedo, skidded and slammed into the block wall on Francis Avenue near Benson Avenue in Chino.


Also to those who arn't aware, the one shot was the passenger, and was attempting to calm the situation down.

Make your judge on what the officer tells the suspect to do before he fires.

My opinion:

This could of and should of been prevented by the cop maintaining his distance from the suspect.

I'm not an officer, but, distance = safety for you and the perp, common f**king sense right there.

Another thing noticed, he charges when he fires, connects with two shots fires 3.

And no... distance does not = safety every time, from the video, which is totally inconclusive, you can tell the Deputy was at least 1 arms distance away from the suspect... which is the standard training. It also looked as if he was close enough to see the inside of the suspect veh meaning he had to be close...

If the susps were both inside the veh, the "pilot" approaches the driver side and the "wing-man" the passenger.

I cant tell where the other officers were, if any, but it didn't look like a standard felony stop which is the safest way to empty a suspect vehicle... that would be my 1st tactical question; "Why no felony stop?"

What the Dep failed to do was take absolute control of the situation, the suspect was mouthing off about being an MP, which does nothing to impress any cop and only alerted them he was trained, possibly armed and more dangerous... the Dep needed to use his big boy voice and tell the susp to STFU, now, and not to move a muscle or he would be shot. Period. No debate, end of story.. "STFU, freeze!!!!... and if you move, I'll blow you're motherfkn head off!!"

Otherwise I have no problem with that Dep capping that guy, he was mouthy a-hole and IMO doing his best to distract the Dep rather than sitting still, keeping his mouth shut and following the Deps orders... you cant run from the gendarme then tell the officers you re cooler, tougher and more bad bellybutton which justifies mouthing off and putting yourself at risk... and no, yelling like that after being pulled over is not "trying to help", helping himself would have been being quiet and eating humble pie until the Deps asked for his story.

He wasn't acting like a professional MP, rather a bigmouth who thinks his time in the sand means anything to a cop on the side of a road at zero dark thirty am... that kid may have had huge responsibility in the military, but on a California road side he's Joe She-it the Rag man. If he played his cards right, he could have easily got some, what we call, "professional courtesy"

One thing I did notice.. that Dep screamed into the radio like a biitch, bad form.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by eagl
but that cop needs to find another line of work.

How about making license plates?

shamus

[ASTAC]

you cant run from the gendarme then tell the officers you re cooler, tougher and more bad bellybutton which justifies mouthing off and putting yourself at risk.

Being a passenger in a high speed chase does not make you guilty of running from the cops.

and Military cops are cooler and tougher than civ cops..just look at any base.you can see the difference between Military cops and the Federal cops they hire to work along side them.

Though I aspire to be Florida HP when I retire from this Mickey Mouse canoe club, (because I actually like enforcing the law)I don't have to much respect for the police I've delt with in the past. The dire need for more police in this country has drasticaly lowered the bar on the quality of the recruits. Alot of them from my experience were guys that couldn't hack it in the armed forces or were wanna be tough guys. Didn't care about the laaw as much as they did the power trip. What happened to the days of professionals that cared about the laws of the land..and enforcing those laws because it was the right thing to do?