Author Topic: Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET  (Read 1436 times)

Offline Eagler

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2006, 06:46:51 AM »
I got SIRB's last two B17's after he came off the initial target .. he got my oil
glided back to within a couple of miles of our airfield only to slide into something ditching

FiLtH for creating interest in the arena
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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storch

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2006, 07:25:56 AM »
single popgun Bf109G6
 climbed to 25k to be dumped to desktop
 climbed to 25k and found a P47, matelot dead
 found the B17s assist on teebox ( i was the one that slowed you down with a front right quarter attack that smoked your right engine on your right drone.

low on fuel observed a fight between white 13 and a P47 for a while.  when it looked like white 13 was dominating went to look for additional trouble elsewhere.

as I'm scanning the sky I received multiple ck6 calls to find white 13s P47 wanted to change partners.  I caused the P47 to overshoot and proceeded to hole the offender up for good measure.  Imagine the nerve of the guy interrupting my beer break!!! followed him down to the deck losing no distance and at speeds exceeding 500mph IAS.  closed and pinged him up a bunch more.  crumpp arrived on the scene and picked up the fight for me so I could rtb fuel.

as I taxied in second kill message flashed propnut dead.  as I was about to tower the assist for teebox flashed.

total for me was:

2 kills P47s 1 assist B17 and landed

Offline FiLtH

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2006, 07:57:51 AM »
Man..when Teebox bought it..it was like watching a wounded deer getting hit by wolves. They stood off for awhile, but once they saw the separation between him and the formation, they pounced. Looked like a feeding frenzy.

~AoM~

Offline Oldman731

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2006, 08:08:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
It was a long mission.

That it was, which had good and bad features.  The bad ones are obvious - most of us, on both sides, spent a lot of time doing nothing but climbing and motoring around looking for something.   Oldman got to bed way past his bed time.

The good ones outweighed the bad ones, so far as I'm concerned.  This was probably the best reenactment of an 8th AF bombing mission that I've ever seen in AH.  Poor ground controlling, fuel management issues, forming up, positioning for the attack, were all issues that plagued the LW, just as in real life.  When the B-17s were escorted they did fine, when they were unescorted they didn't, just as in real life.  

I don't think I'd enjoy doing this every night, but it was a lot of fun for this particular night.  Thanks to all, but especially to Filth.

- oldman

Offline Stringer

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2006, 08:21:55 AM »
to Filth for organizing the raid and to the escorts for hanging in on a long mission.

And to the Luftwaffe  (well, all but Storch anyway :) ) for coming up and engaging.  Ok, to Storch as well.

That is weird how that happened White...are you sure you didn't get an assist on me, because I think Magic got the kills on 2 of my B17's.

As Oldman said, I don't think I'd do that mission every night, but it was a good change of pace for last night.  We do fine with escorts, but once they leave it is a slaughter for the FW's and Me's.  I ran out of tail ammo and my top turret was shot out early so I could only watch as Magic and Plink sat 200 off my six just picking off the pieces from my beautiful bomber :)

I will say watching the bombs walk across the refinery was pretty cool.

Offline E25280

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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2006, 08:45:12 AM »
My plane for the evening was the 109 G-6 -- three times in fact.

I believe I was one of the first or perhaps second to actually reach the IB raid, only to be pounced on by no less than 4 escorting P-47s.  Due to my complete lack of experience at that kind of altitude, kept stalling at the slightest move of the stick.  Outcome totally predictable -- so I tried to pull escorts away.  Didn't get very far.  Apologies to the pilot that sawed off my wing with one burst -- can't remember who it was.

Second sortie -- got close enough to bombers to take a few pings.  Angling for attack, when last P-47 escort comes quickly from behind.  Several check 6 calls, and I figure I will try to turn the escort away from the bombers.  Mindful of earlier stall problems, I turn SLOWLY.  Too slowly.  "PropNut Shot you down."

Third sortie -- try to take 2 rockets.  No peskie escorts.  Reach bombers. line up for dive from target's 4 O'clock -- realize at last second angle is slightly off, try to correct and fire rockets at same time.  Complete miss, dive past.  Try to climb back up (dang altitude - more stall buzzing).  Not nearly as much speed as I thought, end up nearly dead 6 of box.  BANG.  One of SIRB's confirmed kills.

8th AF 3, Brauno 0.:cry
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
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Offline Sable

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2006, 08:55:49 AM »
I upped a 190 from 74 just as the bomber formation was passing on their way south.  I climbed to the southeast and put myself into a position to hit the bombers as the were leaving the target area.  As I first got the bombers in sight I lined up, but found they had turned back to the west slightly.  I then noticed what appeared to be the escort, and opted to parrallel the bombers course for a few minutes and wait for the escort to disperse.  Once they had I started making headon passes.  I managed to get about 6 head on passes in before hitting the coastline - by that time I'd killed one, and gotten an assist on 2 or 3, without taking any return fire.  I made one last approach on a straggling box from the rear and got some good hits on one - my oil was hit in return and I rtbed.

I then switched to the allies to try and give some withdrawl cover - my Jug had just made it up to 25k when I crashed to the deskop. :furious

With regard to the length of the mission - this was fun, but obviously can't be an every night kind of thing.

With regard to the escort, the biggest flaw was that there wasn't enough, and what there was stuck to the bombers from what I could see.  It seems like it might be a better idea to split the escort up into a few smaller groups.  

It seems that the bombers can take care of themselves - at first.  The interceptors keep gradually pecking away and finally during the rtb stage it all falls apart.  

I think it would be worthwhile to try splitting up the escort.  Get one group  to cross the coast a few minutes ahead of the bombers, sweep the fields where opposition is expected to up from and just bounce anything they see - be aggressive.  If someone had attacked me while I was still climbing up I likely wouldn't have ever made contact with the bombers, or at least not until they had already hit the channel.

The second group (ideally the largest group) would stick with the bombers and attack any fighters that came up.  As they lost altitude they would leave the bombers and sweep enemy fighter fields on the way home, once again trying to hit any interceptors before they got up to altitude.

The third group would cross the coast outbound a few minutes behind the bombers, and try to rendevous with them as the second group was fading away.  They would carry out the same role as the second group - attack any interceptors, drive them off and then sweep fields while rtbing.

By this time the first group should have rtbed, and then upped again to pick up the bombers over the channel, to prevent the last minute massacres we keep seeing.

This method wouldn't keep the bombers covered 100% of the time, but should keep more of the interceptors dodging and engaging the escorts.  If you could cut down the number of 109/190s making it to the bomber formation, and then make sure there was some escort during the withdrawl that would probably result in a serious reduction in bomber losses.

Offline Treize69

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2006, 09:06:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stringer
That is weird how that happened White...are you sure you didn't get an assist on me, because I think Magic got the kills on 2 of my B17's.


Nah it was a P-47 that I got a good 15-20 minutes before I engaged the buffs.

Beats me, I'm just confused now.

Is there any way I can check and see the IDs of my last few kills?
Treize (pronounced 'trays')- because 'Treisprezece' is too long and even harder to pronounce.

Moartea bolșevicilor.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2006, 12:38:31 PM »
I upped same time as Storch and headed North scouting for bombers.  Climbed to 25k and was just at the edge of the Channel when the dar bar appeared.  4 sectors behind me.  AAAAAA!

My 109 had already sucked the drop tank dry and was 1/4 of the way through the main tank.  I reversed my course and went into a shallow dive for speed, levelling back out at 21k.  The bombers had already made their strike and were outbound when I made it to the target area.  That refinery fire sure did look pretty from 25k.  I couldnt see much they had missed.  Bombers werent even in sight, slowly turned towards the North scanning for targets.  Caught the barest glimmer of sunlight reflecting off metal and locked my course.  

Filth, it may have looked like we pounced on TeeBox once he started to fall back, but truth is he was just the first target.  He was smoking from Storch's pass, and at the rear of the formation.  I was running on fumes and knew I had only one shot, so I engaged WEP and lined up from 800 yards out.  Held the aim just above the wings and let those godolas sing!  I was rewarded with several hits on the right wing and body of the lead plane.  Shots from the defensive fire began hitting me, lost my oil cooler and then my engine.  Not sure if I was hit or ran out of gas.  By now I was at d400, I slewed the plane right and hit the one already smoking dead on.  At that point part of my left wing separated from the plane and I began a slow spiral down to earth.  TeeBox exploded moments later, giving Storch his assist (and me my only Kill).

Punched out, spent the night in some barn and hitched a ride back to the airfield in the morning.  

Lots of fun.  :)

Offline Airscrew

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2006, 01:00:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sable
With regard to the escort, the biggest flaw was that there wasn't enough, and what there was stuck to the bombers from what I could see.  It seems like it might be a better idea to split the escort up into a few smaller groups.  

It seems that the bombers can take care of themselves - at first.  The interceptors keep gradually pecking away and finally during the rtb stage it all falls apart.  


Sable, If IRC from some books I have read,  Escorts would meet the bomber formations just before crossing into France, then escort as far as fuel would allow, then RTB, leaving bombers on their own for bombing run.

in the meantime a second escort flight would have already taken off to meet the bomber formation as it left the target area and escort back to the channel.

In this mix I think the escorts had a top cover while inbound and outbound from the staging area.

Also wasnt the P-38 used for the early escort runs first? and then switched to P-47? or do I have that backwards.

Offline FiLtH

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2006, 01:33:25 PM »
Great stories!  

   Anyone have pics to show?

~AoM~

Offline Oldman731

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2006, 01:39:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
Sable, If IRC from some books I have read,  Escorts would meet the bomber formations just before crossing into France, then escort as far as fuel would allow, then RTB, leaving bombers on their own for bombing run.

in the meantime a second escort flight would have already taken off to meet the bomber formation as it left the target area and escort back to the channel.

In this mix I think the escorts had a top cover while inbound and outbound from the staging area.

Also wasnt the P-38 used for the early escort runs first? and then switched to P-47? or do I have that backwards.

The sector patrol system you describe is accurate, and was what 8th AF used for most of the war.  Somehow it's become legend that the 38s were the first escorts, but they weren't.  20th and 55th FGs didn't become operational until, er, November-December, 1943.  The 47 groups had been flying since the spring.

- oldman

Offline gear

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2006, 03:04:26 PM »
Didn't the p47 lack the range to escort the bombers all the wat to the target?:confused:

Offline Oldman731

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2006, 03:16:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gear
Didn't the p47 lack the range to escort the bombers all the wat to the target?:confused:

It did at first, which was why the 1943 missions were so disastrous for the 8th Bomber Command.  By December 1943 or January, 1944 the 47s had the 108-gallon paper drop tanks, so that the bombers were able to fly within the fighter-protected zones all the way to the target and back.

- oldman

Offline XAKL

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Mission #4 Feb 8th 9pm ET
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2006, 11:57:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
Nah it was a P-47 that I got a good 15-20 minutes before I engaged the buffs.

Beats me, I'm just confused now.

Is there any way I can check and see the IDs of my last few kills?


White 13 that 47D-11 u got was me <> with my head up my arse when u attacked.  I just got done dispensing one of ur Kraut buddy <>  I was typing away to see if I can rejoin with the bomber group, then I see these trailers all around me.  BOOM!! I'm blown out of the sky.  Hopefully next time, I can stay with the flight group.

But <> to you Axis Crud

SINKER