Delay... Scum or Biggest Scum?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by midnight Target
If you think all he did was "not support the bill" you didn't read the article.

Yes I read the article and yes I think he did not support the bill.  


If you ask, "do you think he did not support the bill because of 'contribution"?  I would say yes

But then to be fair I would say "do democrats to include Reid do this"?:

I would say yes as well.


MT,  

Playing the "who's more corrupt than who" card will just end up realizing that both parties are pretty much on an equal playing feild as far as being corrupt.

If the democrats wish to capitolize on this issue they better wish there own house is clean before doing whit glove inspections on others.

[Hangtime]

republicrats have no morals of their own.

they're leased.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
"Congress is being run like a plantation....and you all KNOW what I mean by that" -Hillary Clinton

At least she's honest about her pandering.

Then there's "not one democrat took one dime of Ambramoff money"  -Howard Dean, Chairman DNC

"Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid wrote at least four letters helpful to Indian tribes represented by Jack Abramoff..."

Scum is as scum does.

Balony.

Reid has received campaign money from Nevada Indian tribes for much longer than Abramoff has been around.

Is there anything wrong with that? No. Of course not. Saying so is akin to saying that it's a crime for politicians to receive donations from Microsoft and Shell. There is nothing illegal or shady about it, and the fact that Reid received Indian tribe money is no different. They are in Nevada, they are his constituents, and campaign donations are a staple of elections.

And... the fact is... tribe donations to Reid went DOWN since Abramoff came on the scene. Abramoff didn't direct money to Reid, he directed money AWAY from Reid.

But portray it however you want... Because as you sit there and watch Republican after Republican get indicted for Abramoff related crimes over the course of this next year, ponder why Reid will not, nor will any Democrat be indicted over this. Why? Misleading little attempts to try and tie Democrats like Reid to this scandal aside, Democrats were simply not involved. Tell me differently only at that moment when you see the "breaking" banner flash under some talking head stating that a Democrat has been implicated and charged. I'll not hold my breath. And I'll not take meaningless little "news" stories the likes quoted by you, which amount to nothing, seriously. Until then? I reserve the right to laugh at your noise.

You want real scandal? THIS WEEK ALONE:

CIA middle east agent Paul Pillar comes out and says the this admin didn't even request any strategic-level intelligence assessments on any aspect of Iraq. "The first request I received from any administration policy maker for any such assessment was not until a year into the war." Neat.

The WH was informed about the breach of the N.O. levees the day before they claimed that they were informed about it. Lie.

Bush claims no memory of ever meeting Abromoff, then several emails turn up, penned by Abramoff, describing their relationship and saying that he "joked with me about a bunch of things, including details of my kids."

Does Bush's memory suck this bad? Because I'm sensing a pattern here. Oh wait, Abramoff goes on to say "He has one of the best memories of any politician I have ever met."

What else happened this week?

Oh, also this week, Scooter Libby flips on his boss, saying that Cheney actually asked him to out the identity of a CIA operative. Also very neat.

Two chief FISA judges became outraged after learning that information gained from illegal wiretapping led to the issuing of warrants. Both judges had insisted that no information obtained this way be used to gain warrants from their court, and both had been assured by administration officials it would never happen. Guess what?

Hmm...

John Boehner, the Republican majority leader elected based largely on his claims to lead efforts in reforming lobbying rules after the ousting of DeLay, rents his DC abode from a lobbyist connected to Abramoff.  Look at a picture of the guy and tell me if he doesn't look like the total archetype of a used car salesman. Is this really the go-to guy for ridding Republicans of scandal?

Really?.....

What else happened this week?...

Heather Wilson, Republican chairwoman of the House subcommittee overseeing the National Security Agency calls for a probe of the illegal wiretapping. Good on her.

This is nifty:

Bush's proposed budget contains a plan to set up private social security accounts and the means to put social security revenues into these accounts. Wait a sec....  Isn't this the exact same overhaul of Social Security that Bush took on the road last year and was soundly dismissed because nobody wanted this? That's okay.... It only takes a little sleight of hand and you can slip the entire program into page 321 of the budget and it becomes law.

I tell ya, these budgets shenanigans are getting downright comical. The Bush budget also projects $4 billion in oil leases for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as an entitlement cut... yet... Congress didn't approve ANWR . Strange?
Well yeah. Suprising? You have got to be kidding.

Folks.... This all happened in the last 5 days.

 The five days before that? The exact same crap.

And it goes on and on and on while you slowly get stripped of your rights, while your country falls behind in the world competitively, while the education of your children is undercut, while the cost of this incompetence is passed on to those same children, while the best of you fall in a war of choice, while your health care is gutted, while your deficits balloon, and while your world image is tarnished..... and on and on.

People used to love you. Do you know that?

Now I dare you to explain this administration to me using words even approximating any sense of success. Because they would be lies. They would be just exactly like this sham article equating Reid with Abramoff. Pure regurgitated spin aimed (with success, if folks here are any measure) at keeping you nice and complicit, with just the right dose of fear. The world's largest head fake.

It sucks.

[Gunslinger]

ahh that's charming.  Nash going balistic trying to defend democrats against corruption.

Lets go down the Nash list shall we?

1.  Democrats good, republicans corrupt
2.  rebulicans incidted  (wich ones nash?)
3.  CIA WMD  (yes please keep beating this dead horse.  It has worked so far....NOT)
4.  New Orleans
5.  Bush meeting Abramoff
6.  Scooter Libby
7.  FISA
ect ect
8.  Bush lies "even though you have nothing to back it up"

Lets just stop right there.  Geesh Nash for a canadian you sure have a hand hold on American Democratic National Committee talking points

You mentioned 9 or 10 things that have absolutly no bearing on this thread.  Congrats.  

[Nash]

Real suprising.

A post that appears to look like something amounts to nothing. Is that all you can muster?

Only a list of the things I addressed, with no rebuttal, no... anything.

Not one thing.

I can't find what it is you're defending here.

You create a list of my words, and that's it.

"Lets go down the Nash list shall we?" says you.

You then proceed to make bullet points out of my post.

Then you say "Lets just stop right there."

I start to get scared. Oh no.... Is Gunslinger going to be the person that gives the lie to all that I am? In how many ways is this man going to dice me?

Then you fail to address a single one of them.

What the hell are you doing?

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Gunslinger


You mentioned 9 or 10 things that have absolutly no bearing on this thread.  Congrats.  

While you have completely ignored what this thread is about.

1. Slavery in a US protestorate.
2. Forced abortions by companies in a US protectorate.
3. Approval of the operations of these companies by the Republican leader of the House, Delay.
4. The defeat of a law that would have changed these practices by this same Republican leader.
5. Payola and free excursions given to Delay.
6. A speech by Delay calling these companies "his Galapagos of Capitalism".
7. And to top it off the bill was written by the most Conservative senator of them all, so it can't be called a dem-rep issue. It is just plain old larcony of the American people... including the ones in Saipan.

[lazs2]

None of those things are costing me money or taking away my guns or building more socialism.

Republicans are scum but democrats cause me more grief.   Rather some republican make wage slaves out of some nothing country than some democrat make a wage slave to the government out of me.  

And... I want the ability to shoot back.   I want to own my own property and I don't want a stronger EPA complete with starry eyed granola eaters and power grabbers and junk science grabbing every cent they can and growing their agency as fast as they can.

lazs

[Gunslinger]

I'm not defending anyone not the least of tom Delay.

But it's typical when talking about corruption that the corruption on the other side of the isle is completly ignored.  At least I'm not in here spouting RNC talking points.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
But it's typical when talking about corruption that the corruption on the other side of the isle is completely ignored.  At least I'm not in here spouting RNC talking points.

Are you kidding? That IS an RNC talking point.

"Everyone does it."

You try to make that case by painting a picture of Reid doing something wrong. Yet... he didn't do anything wrong. This is the muddying of the waters that the GOP would so love everyone to parrot.

"They're all corrupt."

Again, go ahead and let me know when a Democrat gets indicted over this. Like I said, I won't be holding my breath.

It's funny. For a party that possesses all three branches of government, they sure do love to trash talk it. "Keep the Federal government out of my State!" "Smaller government!" "Fer chrissakes, we're all corrupt!"

It absolutely reeks of hypocrisy. Republicans meddle in State's rights. Republicans balloon the size of the government. Republicans are dropping like flies as a result of their corruption.

They can win elections, thanks to guys like you. I'll give them that. But they sure as hell are clueless at actually governing. For all their broken-record disdain for government, it hardly surprises me that they'd suck at, you know, doing it.

Anyways.

MT makes a post that notes the lack of outrage over more Delay shenanigans by those here who are so trigger happy to be outraged over these very issues. The problem, it's noted, is that this was done by a Republican. So instead we get sheepish relativism and a decoy by the name of Reid-did-something-wrong-and-everyone-is-corrupt.

You know damned well that had this been a Democrat you would be screaming bloody murder. The hypocrisy didn't go unnoticed by MT and it certainly doesn't go unnoticed by me.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
Are you kidding? That IS an RNC talking point.

"Everyone does it."

You try to make that case by painting a picture of Reid doing something wrong. Yet... he didn't do anything wrong. This is the muddying of the waters that the GOP would so love everyone to parrot.
Again, go ahead and let me know when a Democrat gets indicted over this. Like I said, I won't be holding my breath.

It's funny. For a party that possesses all three branches of government, they sure do love to trash talk it. "Keep the Federal government out of my State!" "Smaller government!" "Fer chrissakes, we're all corrupt!"

"They're all corrupt."


It absolutely reeks of hypocrisy. Republicans meddle in State's rights. Republicans balloon the size of the government. Republicans are dropping like flies as a result of their corruption.

They can win elections, thanks to guys like you. I'll give them that. But they sure as hell are clueless at actually governing. For all their broken-record disdain for government, it hardly surprises me that they'd suck at, you know, doing it.

Anyways.

MT makes a post that notes the lack of outrage over more Delay shenanigans by those here who are so trigger happy to be outraged over these very issues. The problem, it's noted, is that this was done by a Republican. So instead we get sheepish relativism and a decoy by the name of Reid-did-something-wrong-and-everyone-is-corrupt.

You know damned well that had this been a Democrat you would be screaming bloody murder. The hypocrisy didn't go unnoticed by MT and it certainly doesn't go unnoticed by me.

Well let me know when Delay gets indicted on these charges and is convictd and I will show you all the outrage you want.  If you think anyone doesnt care about this because he's a republican you are dead wrong.  Just look at the Duke Cunningham thread for that.

The FACT of the matter is Delay and Reid havn't been convicted on any of these issues but you want to spin it as "Delay is scum and Reid did nothing wrong"  

Most were to discuss Democratic legislation that would have applied the U.S. minimum wage to the Northern Mariana Islands, a U.S. territory and Abramoff client, but would have given the islands a temporary break on the wage rate, the billing records show.

Reid also intervened on government matters at least five times in ways helpful to Abramoff's tribal clients, once opposing legislation on the Senate floor and four times sending letters pressing the Bush administration on tribal issues. Reid collected donations around the time of each action.

OMG reid did the same thing MT is accusing Delay of doing......NOT PROTECTING WORKERS PAY

And Reid's longtime chief of staff accepted a free trip to Malaysia arranged by a consulting firm connected to Abramoff

WOW a FREE trip.....nope no scum here either.....he did nothing wrong.

You two need to get real.  When the convictions are handed out you'll see my outrage.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
When the convictions are handed out you'll see my outrage.

Promise?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
Promise?

Definatly.  I felt pitty for Duke Cunningham because he was a vet and an ACE.  But, I also felt betrayed that he is a trusted public servant and betrayed that trust that the voters bestowed on him.  I would feel the same way for any politician that knowingly breaks the law and violates the trust of the people no matter wich side of the isle they sit on.

As I said before.  If the Dems want to make a "Culture of Corruption" there running theme next elections they better make sure that their own house is clean first.

[Nash]

Republican scandal. Mmmkay?

No money from Abramoff went to Democrats. None. What exactly about that are you having trouble with? Please - I would love to help you out here.

Yet from you, we get "pitty."

We get "no matter wich side of the isle they sit on."

We get "Dems."

We get  "making sure that their own house is clean first."

Where is this coming from?

Instead of condemning the actions you know about, you're gonna take a wait and see posture because of actions which there isn't any evidence of. Puhlease.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
Republican scandal. Mmmkay?

No money from Abramoff went to Democrats. None. What exactly about that are you having trouble with? Please - I would love to help you out here.

Yet from you, we get "pitty."

We get "no matter wich side of the isle they sit on."

We get "Dems."

We get  "making sure that their own house is clean first."

Where is this coming from?

Instead of condemning the actions you know about, you're gonna take a wait and see posture because of actions which there isn't any evidence of. Puhlease.

Yes I will take a wait and see attitude because Liberals and the media tend to make mountains out of mole hills any time there's a hint of inproprioty involving a republican.  

But let me just get this strait.  Harry Reid took money from Abramoff's firm and several Indian tribes that he represents, but that doesnt count as Abramoff money?  Is that your contention?  Does this apply to republicans as well that in as long as they didn't take it from Abramoff himself they didn't take any Abramoff money to include Abramoff's firm, his clients, and their staffs?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Nash

No money from Abramoff went to Democrats. None.

AFAIK, a very small percentage did go to Dems. Not relevant to your point though.