Author Topic: US Army brutality in Kosovo  (Read 4201 times)

Offline leonid

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« on: September 16, 2000, 06:51:00 AM »
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Army will release an edited version of a report Monday dealing with members of a peacekeeping unit in Kosovo that have been disciplined for beating and abusing civilians they were there to protect.

"This squad was bad news," one senior Army official told CNN on Friday. "They were bad apples."

The report, which was introduced as evidence during the trial of convicted killer Staff Sgt. Frank Ronghi, shows that soldiers assigned to Ronghi's unit engaged in beatings, intimidation and illegal detention of civilians in the Kosovar town of Vitina.
 
Ronghi was sentenced to life in prison without parole after pleading guilty to premeditated murder, sodomy and committing indecent acts with an 11-year-old Kosovar Albanian girl earlier this year. His plea enabled him to avoid the death penalty.

Unit said to be 'generally abusive' toward women

Following Ronghi's arrest, the Army launched an investigation into the conduct of his unit, the 3rd Battalion, 504th Parachute Regiment of the famed 82nd Airborne Division.

The investigation was conducted to collect evidence to be used against Ronghi, but officials learned along the way that other members of his unit had also engaged in misconduct. Nine members of the unit, including four officers, were punished.

All of the punishments, announced in March and April of this year, was "non-judicial" or "administrative" in nature and the men were not jailed.

One official described the unit as "generally abusive" toward woman.

Investigators found that the nine soldiers had threatened civilians with weapons, assaulted people and held people in custody for unreasonable periods of time given their offenses.

Other punished soldiers not named

Military officials said the report raised questions about the kinds of training the men received in preparation for peacekeeping duty.

While the central facts of the case and the unit's conduct had already been made public, the 1,100-page report is expected to provide additional detail even after the extensive removal of classified material.

The names of the soldiers who were punished administratively were withheld by the Army since they were not charged with felony crimes, but Army officials did say that the punishments included reduction in rank, the withholding of pay and in several cases "career ending letters of reprimand."
ingame: Raz

Offline Dowding

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2000, 06:57:00 AM »
Sounds like they got what they deserved. I'm sure the whole peace-keeping operation is not like that. Can't be worse than the Serbs at any rate.

It would be intersting to know how long they were able to get away with it.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Staga

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2000, 07:41:00 AM »
These guys went there to protect those civilians  

I'm little confused;
Ronghi raped and killed a 11 year old child when he was serving his country as a peace-keeper.
You got death penalty; Why didn't they use it?

Couple my friends were on Lebanon and Golan heights on U.N peace keeping unit;
There local citizens wanted these guys stop by tea in evenings; That propably not gonna happen in few months (years?) in that town where this tragedy happened.


Offline 1776

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2000, 07:47:00 AM »
What are troops still doing in Kosovo?  Why were they sent there in the first place?  When will they exit Kosovo??

I have a feeling the next pres will have to address the sorry state of our military and thier current world assignments.  I would hate to be part of the military for the last 7 or so years!!  All I can say is hang in there troops, help is on the way(that's if the American public will open their eyes)!!


Offline Toad

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2000, 08:20:00 AM »
Well, the news report I heard mentioned that these charges were against 10 men out of a force of 6000.

I'm glad the US Army has the ability to catch and prosecute people like this.

I wish they had hung that guy in the town square. But then, I'm cold and heartless when it comes to folks that knowingly and deliberately harm other people that are minding their own business.

I'm also glad that the Army didn't try to cover it up.

I think the easiest way to make sure this doesn't happen is to bring all 250,000+ US troops home from overseas bases.

We are not the world's policeman.

If slaughter breaks out again somewhere, let the local neighbors handle it.
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Offline StSanta

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2000, 09:07:00 AM »
A few bad apples, to be sure, but that doesn't reflect the general performance of US troops, methinks.

Toad, bringing home the troops stationed elsewhere is an option. The price is reduced influence of course. And probably a reduction of armed forces, since less are needed.

I gather there are American politicans who wouldn't like either of them. republicans and democrats alike.



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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2000, 09:19:00 AM »
1.  Sad to see that killers (soldiers) are being used as policemen.  WTG Bubba.

2.  Glad to see these guys were punished.

3.  Let's get the rat bastards that arranged this out of office.

Offline Staga

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2000, 10:26:00 AM »
Anyway I'm happy this world has something like U.N and countries who are able to send units to protect civilians.

Current peacekeeping operations
Finland in U.N
U.N Photos
Big <S> for these guys !


[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 09-16-2000).]

Offline Westy

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2000, 10:39:00 AM »
"I think the easiest way to make sure this doesn't happen is to bring all 250,000+ US troops home from overseas bases. We are not the world's policeman. If slaughter breaks out again somewhere, let the local neighbors handle it."

 I loudly second that TOAD.  In the mean time that Staff SGT. should have had his nuts cut off to go along with the life imprisonment  term. Hopefully he's somebodys "squeak."

-Westy

Offline Dowding

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2000, 11:59:00 AM »
Splendid isolation? Lessons from the past surely rule that option out.

Toad what are your opinions on the Middle East? Withdrawing from places like Iraq will make America look very bad -it would look like you running away from a situation that you must have some responsibility for creating (I count Britain in that as well).

Perhaps you shouldn't have supported Israel as well (arms and training).

I agree with what StSanta says (I'm not going to make this a habit   ) - what will your armed forces do then?

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-16-2000).]
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Offline AKDejaVu

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2000, 12:47:00 PM »
 
Quote
Ronghi raped and killed a 11 year old child when he was serving his country as a peace-keeper.
You got death penalty; Why didn't they use it?

The death penalty is voted in by each state.  Some states have it.. some do not.

The Federal system does not have a death penalty except during war times or in cases of treason.  Since this happened overseas, it is a federal crime and not a state crime.

On the other side of the coin.. life in a federal penetentary is not supposed to be all too pleasant.  Hard time is an understatement.

AKDejaVu

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2000, 03:10:00 PM »
Your federal system DOES have a death penalty. It just hasn't been succesfully used since the 70's. The first criminal due to be killed is in NY right now undergoing his latest round of appeals.

As for a few other comments:

"At least our army didn't try and cover it up"

Yeah right. roadkill. I bet if that report hadn't come out in trial they would have never admitted it. And I further stake a double or nothing on the fact they are not the only bad apples. US forces BTW have the 3rd worst reputation of any peace keeping force. In campbodia they spent more time using up condoms on potatos than patrolling for Khmer rouge. And in Kosovo it's just as bad. It's like a free vacation to the troops there, except you get guns and authority to go along with it. My own personal sadness is that this sort of performance is rubbing off on our own peacekeepers. In somalia the killing of that boy by our parachute regiment  was the darkest mark in the history of canadian peacekeepers. Something like that would have been inconsiderable 10 years ago- now it's part and parcel.

"I think the easiest way to make sure this doesn't happen is to bring all 250,000+ US troops home from overseas bases.
We are not the world's policeman. If slaughter breaks out again somewhere, let the local neighbors handle it."

oookaaaay. Downtown made a good point. Isolationism is for people that refuse to believe there is a threat until the guns are pointed right in their face. Every time the US and NATO forces intervene they send a strong message to the world. That message is "we won't tolerate this". It means that genocides, coups and armed aggression against your neighbours will bring the might of NATO right down on your balls like a sledgehammer.
If you think that 3rd world countries don't affect you then your ignoring the message given out when you ignore it. And that brings the same attitudes right home. And lastly: there is only 1 way to train troops for combat- put them in it. US has the best armed forces in the world. Every time they flex them those forces get valuable combat experience..  and those that would consider combat with them see just how good they are...  For toejam and giggles take a look for USSR reports on the effects of US air power over Iraq and the performance of the Iraqi pilots. It's funny to see despair spelled out on paper.

"Let's get the rat bastards that arranged this out of office."

They are. But you can always re-elect them through his son? Believe me- Clinton dragged his heels bellybutton and balls so long over these decisions that by the time he agreed the worst atrocieties were OVER.

Offline Pongo

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2000, 03:14:00 PM »
Been a peackeeper.
The important thing is to focus on the good work that the vast majority of the 82nd has done in trouble spots arround the world.
We cant read the minds of the people we recruit.
Doctors, lawyers, pastors,busdrivers, police men shoe salesmen every profession, every race, every creed contain rapists and people that will abuse power they find themselves  holding.
When Canadian Airborne troops in Somalia tortured a local man to death several years ago people could not believe it. Canadians?
Canadians, Finns, Brits, all of us are people. People can be evil.
One of the many downsides of peace keeping is that you never see the alternative. How many lives have been saved in the balkans by external intervention in the last 10 years? We will never know. But the list of casualties from all sides is getting long.

The other unfortunate side to peacekeeping is that the locals rarly appreciate it. they start to see you as the enemy, you start to see them as the enemy.
This animal could have taken advantage of that sentimant and his rank to build an attitude of hatred in his unit. Soldiers are trained to obey, trained to admire the men above them. People that question the people above them even about obviosly stupid things are weeded out.
It is not that supprising. On this board all the time we see people that are instantly aggressive with people that question the powers in authority. Many men probably challanged this guy at different times. They probably paid the price in their careers and in the barracks.
It is extremly hard to be one of those people that will contest idiocy in a military unit.
In the case of the Canadian incedent. Only one man appears to have imediatly grasped what was going on and stoped it. There were supperiors there that hid their heads for hours while it happend and many subordinates that did nothing.
One man from dozens stoped it.
I knew that man. does he get a medal? No because we want to think he did the average thing. Anyone could have stoped it right...
But that is not the case.

I have served with the 82nd. I hope that they can look at themselves and straighten this out. I am sure they will.
The Canadian Airborne unit was disbanded after the Somalia incedent. That is a typical Canadian response to a problem.

Peace Baby


Offline AKDejaVu

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2000, 05:24:00 PM »
 
Quote
My own personal sadness is that this sort of performance is rubbing off on our own peacekeepers.

Rubbing off on your peacekeepers?  Nice try.  Unless... of course... human nature is finally rubbing off on Canadians?

Power corrupts... absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Its human nature.  Young men were (are) being given power they weren't expirienced enough to handle.  This is inevitably something that happens as a result.  Unfortunatly, there is no sure fire way to predict who is/isn't ready for that kind of authority with 100% accuracy.

AKDejaVu


Offline wolf37

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US Army brutality in Kosovo
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2000, 07:13:00 PM »
hi all:

peace keeping troops from all over the world have a hard job to do, and I beleive they do a great job.

they leave there familys for 6 months or so at a time. they have to try and keep peace well there hands are tied as to what they can do. they wittness the horror of what others have done. and what others are doing.

and after they come home, they return for more peace keeping missions to try and help where ever they can. and for the most part, it is a thankless job.

as little as I can say to these people,
SALUTE, you are doing a great job, you can be proud of that.



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