shaming the vulchers

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Oldman731
...er....British liberated Bergen-Belsen....Russians started Berlin offensive....all very good things.  I just sense that there must have been a superman who got vulched, though.

- oldman

Biggest strafing raid in 8th AF history.  HUNDREDS of planes shot up on the ground.

I also refer you to January 1, 1945.

So from what I have been reading Most must want vulching, because they really dont address the issue but rag on you. So be warned no more circleing a airbase waiting for flyers to get alt, a kill is a kill, after all we must  want to pad our scores.
 maybe we could stop the next raid by vulching the rear fields, think of the kills landed when you vulch a string of bombers rolling down the runway! [/B]

The 8th AF counted strafing scores as kills.  I do not believe that a Mustang attacking an airbase on the continent would have 'circled' the base allowing the LW to get alt.  This is a war game, not a dueling game.  You sound like you want to go fly some sort of duel all the time, there is an arena for that.  Life and flying fighters are not condusive to fairness.

I remember once a few months ago when my squad was attacking a field to take out the ammo and fuel.  As I came in 2 flights of buffs and 3 fighters upped.  I just happened to be flying at a slight angle to the runway just approaching the field at 350mph.  Needless to say my 6 rockets went onto the runway rather than the fuel dump.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Fencer51
This is a war game, not a dueling game.  

Only partly true.  Particularly in AvA, there's no war to win.  Viewed another way, there is no objective goal.  You simply fly to fight and, in this arena, to reenact a bit of history.  To the extent that the history reenactment discourages the fighting, rather than encouraging it, some think it detracts from the enjoyment.

Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.

- oldman (now don't get me started on fragging)

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Only partly true.  Particularly in AvA, there's no war to win.  Viewed another way, there is no objective goal.  You simply fly to fight and, in this arena, to reenact a bit of history.  To the extent that the history reenactment discourages the fighting, rather than encouraging it, some think it detracts from the enjoyment.

Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.

- oldman (now don't get me started on fragging)

There would be a war to win if it was allowed to happen. The constant furball between Callias , and Dover, is not reenacting history.

I agree with you on the vulching, I don't understand the satisfaction myself.  There is no need to get vulched though. If the field you are at is under attack, or there is combat in the very near vicinity............ Your death is due to your choice of takeoff locations as much as any other reason.

 If somebody, anybody, is trying to knock out a base attacking aircraft upping from the field is not going to be vulching it's going be required tactics...................... .. So where do you draw the line between vulching , and suppressing.

[1azbaer]

Oldman I agree,
Sometimes I think the desire to stick to historical facts or precieved historical facts detracts from the game play. I would rather have a fair fight with another player instead of ruining  their game play expeirence.

Make the game totally realistic: makeing some planes break down, mechcanical failures in flight, in takeoff or landing. defective bombs that dont explode on contact or worse explode in flight. When a player is capture or kill your done period. Please pay another 14.99 to start a new Pilot. How far do you all want to go with this historical junk?

[KONG1]

Gotta call the BS on this vulching is historical thing.  Granted vulching really happened…but…that’s not why players want do it.

“Hey man I’m trying my best to be an uber accurate reenactor of WWII and you’s guy’s are trying to deprive me of my ability to be as real as possible”………My Granny’s Fanny

Fact is you want to vulch because you need to see something go boom, I win if I “kill” no matter how, every time I fight I “die”, I beat up 1st graders when I was 12 cause 2nd graders were too tough, I’ll scratch your car cause I’m scared to confront you, I want to play in god mode with infinite ammo so I can pwn, weak kneed, lilly livered, limp wristed, I must have self-esteem, pansy boys in diapers.

(Sorry got carried away there)

You have the right to want what you want, just be honest about why.

[Juntts]

Originally posted by SuperDud
how?

You are being a funny lad:

By strafing them on takeoff or landing approach

[Shifty]

Originally posted by KONG1
Gotta call the BS on this vulching is historical thing.  Granted vulching really happened…but…that’s not why players want do it.

“Hey man I’m trying my best to be an uber accurate reenactor of WWII and you’s guy’s are trying to deprive me of my ability to be as real as possible”………My Granny’s Fanny

Fact is you want to vulch because you need to see something go boom, I win if I “kill” no matter how, every time I fight I “die”, I beat up 1st graders when I was 12 cause 2nd graders were too tough, I’ll scratch your car cause I’m scared to confront you, I want to play in god mode with infinite ammo so I can pwn, weak kneed, lilly livered, limp wristed, I must have self-esteem, pansy boys in diapers.

(Sorry got carried away there)

You have the right to want what you want, just be honest about why.

Maybe  base capture ability should just be turned off completely. Then just move the map with the ebb , and flow of the actual war. As bad as I hate to get vulched. I can see it being a useful tactic when trying to take a base.
Thats the only time I can see it having a purpose other then what you described above.

[Fencer51]

Only partly true. Particularly in AvA, there's no war to win. Viewed another way, there is no objective goal. You simply fly to fight and, in this arena, to reenact a bit of history. To the extent that the history reenactment discourages the fighting, rather than encouraging it, some think it detracts from the enjoyment.

and

Sometimes I think the desire to stick to historical facts or precieved historical facts detracts from the game play.

I guess I do not understand this arena.  I thought this was a historical arena, could someone on the AvA staff explain what the purpose of this arena is?  I thought the dueling arena is where fair fights are to take plance.

Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.

and

I would rather have a fair fight with another player instead of ruining their game play expeirence.

Do you guys ever ‘bounce’ someone that doesn’t see you?
Do you ever go and help someone who has a bandit on his 6 and is in danger of getting shot down?
Do you dive through a furball and get the guy extending on the deck who is battle damaged?
Ever shoot someone and knock off his elevators or flaps and then finish him off?
Do you ever shoot down someone who is hanging on his prop?
Ever shoot at a bomber on its bomb run and get no return fire?

I would argue that all these examples are opponents who are either not capable of fighting back or the act of ruining someone else’s gameplay as you define it.  I call it combat.  I thought this was a combat flight simulation not a dueling flight simulation.

What is the difference of shooting someone on the runway?  Is it because they are closer to the ground?  Is it because they have their wheels down?  Why is this any different than bouncing someone that doesn’t see you.  I will tell you why, the guy taking off has heard the air raid sirens and therefore is warned and KNOWS that someone is nearby and has chosen to take off anyway.  Most of the time when this occurs the ack is shooting at you and quite frequently a few flak panzers or M16s as well.  This can make it more dangerous than fighting at altitude as you have no control on the chances of dying it is up to the skill of the defenders.

And Kong, nicely incoherent post.  However I will confess.  I like to strafe.  I like seeing the 6 50cals chew across the tarmac and into a plane.  It reminds me of the countless gun camera films I have seen of strafing Luftwaffe bases.  I respect those allied pilots who were aces by strafing.  The 8th AF was the only American Air Force to count strafing victories as kills.  After the war these were disallowed.  This is a shame as the loss of 8th Air Force pilots to ack was greater than those to LW fighters.  It was far more dangerous to dive down and strafe a field than to fight LW fighters at altitude.  If I remember correctly the 357th FG did not do a lot of strafing and therefore had the lowest loss rate of any FG.  They also didn’t get as many kills as the other groups because of it.

[Juntts]

Again, Fencer has a strong point here.

[Panzzer]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.

Me neither. (Well, perhaps in the MA, when capturing a field with squadmates, but different rules apply there). But in here (AvA, not the forum), I don't see the need for vulching. Let them up, and then fight them.

[1azbaer]

Difference between vulching and in flight fighting.
In flight, lessons learn the hard way:
1) You climb out of a furball to the point that you are hanging on your prop... yes expect to get pinged

2)Do you ever go and help someone who has a bandit on his 6 and is in danger of getting shot down? Yes I do this alot, many of use do, many dont.

3)Do you dive through a furball and get the guy extending on the deck who is battle damaged?  Yes,  everyone does this. Your lying if you say You dont.

4) Ever shoot someone and knock off his elevators or flaps and then finish him off? yes again everyone does this.  again in flight fight

5) Do you ever shoot down someone who is hanging on his prop? Yes everyone does this. again in flight fight

6)Ever shoot at a bomber on its bomb run and get no return fire? Yes again everyone does this. Again in flight fight.

Now. hitting a plane on the runway when landing or taking off yes this is vulching.

Trying to land a middle of an attack on the airfield, same logic as trying to take off from a irfield under attack. take off from another field or land at another field. this is the grey area  Vulching or surpressing? Its up to the piolt of the plane.  
 
Surpressing a field, no need if there is no war to win as Oldman stated in a pervious post.

Fencer51 you quote me about not wanting to ruin the game play of other players. but seemed not to responed to the othe rpart of my part of my posting:

 

Make the game totally realistic: makeing some planes break down, mechcanical failures in flight, in takeoff or landing. defective bombs that dont explode on contact or worse explode in flight. When a player is capture or kill your done period. Please pay another 14.99 to start a new Pilot. How far do you all want to go with this historical junk?

Again, my take from the posting on naming tand shaming the vulchers, that vulching will be tolerated.  Making my point about this becoming a mini MA

[KONG1]

Let’s suppose for arguments sake vulching becomes a regular acceptable expected behavior in the AvA.  Players won’t keep upping to protect the town, nobody cares about the town.  You won’t be able to “get your vulch on” because they’ll just move back. All it would accomplish would be to increase the time between fights.

Maybe HT will add some parked drones in offline mode so Fencer can see “the 6 50cals chew across the tarmac and into a plane”:)

[gear]

Instead of them flying around in a circle have the fighters vulch every time you up a plane.This way you have to kill the fighters from the ground or hit the runway and hope for the best.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Fencer51
I guess I do not understand this arena.  I thought this was a historical arena, could someone on the AvA staff explain what the purpose of this arena is?  I thought the dueling arena is where fair fights are to take plance.

Heh.  I was all set to go off on another rant, and thought better of it.

The "purpose" of the arena is to have an axis v. allies plane set, generally in a particular time frame, and with some effort made to have settings that are more "realistic" than those in place in the MA.  You will get no agreement, from players, staffers or anyone else, beyond that.

Which is really why we're arguing.  MY view of the purpose of the arena is to have exciting aerial fights that are as historically accurate as possible, in which each player has a sporting chance of survival.  But that's not YOUR view, and I'm comfortable with that.  Just expect that I'm going to complain if I think you're being a weenie with the way you fly or fight!  (Note:  Your bomber missions will not draw such a complaint.)

And Shifty, you geezer, furballs across the Channel ARE historically accurate.  For fighter pilots, that's generally what the war was in western Europe between mid-1940 and mid-1944, although the fights gradually moved inland and followed the paths of the bomber formations.  (For our purposes, it doesn't matter much if the oldman crashes into water or dirt.)  As to the historical accuracy of territorial capture in AH....please.  When, in the entire war, did one side capture an airfield by swarming it with fighters and then dropping a squad or two of infantry?

- oldman

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by Juntts
You are being a funny lad:

By strafing them on takeoff or landing approach

Sorry, I was teh drunk last nite!:D