Author Topic: PT Boat  (Read 1327 times)

Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2006, 01:43:17 AM »
Thanks for the info on PT/vehicle external views.

Just did a quickie to see what it looks like as someone else is doing it.





Of course the obvious question - What the hell were they thinking of, lol ?
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Offline Bullethead

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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2006, 02:17:35 PM »
Kev367th said:
Quote
Of course the obvious question - What the hell were they thinking of, lol ?


Normal camo is intended to make the target blend into the background and thus hard to see in the 1st place.  This black-and-white dazzle scheme, OTOH, assumed you'd see the target regardless (due to its size, it leaving a wake, and blowing smoke), so was intended instead to make it hard for you to hit it.  It was invented in WW1 and used extensively on cargo ships, slow convoy escorts, and slow fleet auxilliaries like seaplane tenders.  Faster warships stayed with various shades of gray to blend with the background instead.  It fell into disuse during WW2 as radar came into more widespread use, because the dazzle scheme tricks the eyes, not electrons.

If you want to hit a ship, you have to determine its relative course, speed, and bearing, so you can figure out how much to lead the target.  If you don't have radar, you have to do this by eye, using things like rangefinders and periscope stadia.  The dazzle scheme made it very hard to do this, because it tricked the eye.  It was hard to tell by looking at the target which way it was going, and it was hard to focus it in the rangefinder or line up the periscope stadia correctly.

It's use on PT boats was sort of a throwback to the WW1 era.  As IJN shipping became scarse, PTs ran out of their normal targets.  So then, instead of ambushing IJN ships at night with torpedos, they spent their time cruising the coasts of Japanese islands during the day and trying to shoot up barges they found along the shore.  In this work, they would be shot at by concealed, optically aimed coastal guns and attacked by planes, also using the Mk1mod0 eyeball.  So some of them started using the dazzle scheme to make the 1st Japanese shot miss, to give them time to punch it up to full speed and be able to dodge subsequent shots.

Offline Treize69

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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2006, 03:01:30 AM »
I know its not an argument for historical use, but I have seen a PT Boat in Zebra-stripe camo in real life.

In the spring of '93, my Dad and I  passed one in the Barge Canal (New Yorks old Erie Canal) on Memorial Day weekend headed out of Oneida Lake in the direction of Albany (we were at Sylvan Beach). Its still one of the coolest things I ever stumbled across, and to this day I always carry a camera with me wherever I go- because we din't have one with us that day :(
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Offline Bullethead

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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 04:03:06 PM »
Kev367th said:
Quote
Just did a quickie to see what it looks like as someone else is doing it.


Ya know what, Kev?  Yours looks better than mine and is closer to being done anyway, so you just go on and finish it.  I'll just scrap mine.

Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 04:37:43 PM »
It's nowhere near being done.
There are major issues with mirroring and parts of the skin being re-used in multiple areas.
Other areas are just not skinnable.

May end up being a bust :( .
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2006, 04:46:53 PM »
It's not a throwback to WW1. It was used often in WW2, but to how much success is the question.

Many german battleships had a similar "disruptive" scheme on their hulls.

It wasn't just to make it hard to shoot, it was to make it hard to identify the ships at distance, especially when the best means was via optical devices. It's not that it was intended to "dazzle" the eyes and make it hard to see, but rather it broke up the natural lines and made it very hard to determing hull shape, height, distinguishing features, and the like.

Why on a PT I have no frakkin' clue (lol), but keep in mind they tested this on an Alison P51 F-5 photo recon plane, too!

Offline Treize69

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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2006, 04:59:37 PM »
Probably because all those angles would make it very hard to tell if it was approaching or departing if viewed from and angle, and from a distance they break up the outline quite well (like camo uniforms- they arent to help you blend in exactly, just to break up your outline and make it harder to spot you against the background)
Treize (pronounced 'trays')- because 'Treisprezece' is too long and even harder to pronounce.

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Offline Bullethead

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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2006, 06:50:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
It's nowhere near being done.
There are major issues with mirroring and parts of the skin being re-used in multiple areas.
Other areas are just not skinnable.

May end up being a bust :( .


Bah.  Look at the screens others have done.  You can skin every part of the thing except the torps.  Sure, some parts of the skin are used in multiple places, like the mast uses part of the deck or superstructure, but it's nothing that's a real problem.  I actually like that one's pattern better than mine's, which ends up looking more like woven cloth than presenting 3 sterns at different angles as yours does.

Offline Bullethead

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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2006, 10:38:52 PM »
Kev367th said:
Quote
It's nowhere near being done.


Well, I'm bowing out on this, so knock yourself out.  I never saw any problems with mirroring or unskinnable areas, except what looks like the port side skin is really the starboard side, and vice versa.  The mast, etc., just use bits from other areas.  But as you can see on my sloppy pic, every surface of the boat has camo on it.

Offline Raptor

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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2006, 10:28:15 PM »