Capitalism works.

[Dowding]

I just read about 'sleeping sickness' in Africa, specifically Sudan, and the drug company's role in it.

Basically, sleeping sickness is a parasite which uses the blood stream to attack the brain. The first symtoms are violence, usually to the person's immediate family; this leads to a creeping insanity before the individual slips into a coma and dies.

The traditional 'cure' for this disease does not really warrant the name. It consists of a strong solution of arsenic, which is so potent it can't be contained in plastic because it melts it. This is directly injected into the patient to attack the parasite; in doing this there is collateral damage to the person's vital organs and blood circulation.

This Victorian method of attack can only be used a limited number of times, because it eventually kills the patient. The younger the patient, the more lethal the injection becomes. I saw a documentary showing it being administered to small child - I've never seen such a look of pain on anyone before. Very shocking.

But there is an alternative - and its name is DNFMO. This drug was initially developed as a cure to testicular cancer, but had the quite accidental side-effect of killing the sleeping sickness parasite. Unfortunately, it didn't cure cancer and has been withdrawn. Global stocks of this vital drug are expected to run out this year.

Unfortunately, sleeping sickness is rampant in Sudan, with some villages having 45% of the population affected. If untreated, the disease is 100% fatal. The epidemic is more prevalent than Aids; unlike Aids, however, a cure does exist.

The drug companies could produce DNFMO again if they wanted to, but this would cost $300 million. Africa is poor and there would be no money to buy the drug; market forces dictate that the drug is not produced for humans.

And here is the sickening reality. A similar drug that cures sleeping sickness in cattle is produced, but it doesn't work for humans. The truth is that a cow is worth more than a human life; economics dictates that livestock is more important.

As if it couldn't get any worse, there is a final sting in the tail to this story. It turns out DNFMO removes facial hair - Gillette are to invest in a cream that removes unwanted hair using this drug, to be sold to the women of the developed world. In this moral vacuum, cosmetics is rated higher than the life of an African child.

What a wonderful world we all live in, eh? Surely there is a better way? I just don't know what it is.

------------------
Dowding

99th 'Raging Rooks'

[Toad]

Well, we could double the gas tax in the UK and have the UK fund the drug production, right?

Now simmer down, I'm just kidding.  


Clearly, if what you say is true, this is something that needs doing. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as free lunch, so SOMEONE will have to pay.

Tell you what, the US is spending multiple billions keeping troops in the Balkans every year. How about we bring them home, you guys take over and we'll pay for the drug? Deal? Compared to the Balkans, $300 million is pocket change.

 

Just think what a world it would be if we didn't have to WASTE so much money on stuff like Bosnia.

[RAM]

Same story as always-no money-no medicines.

AIDS was in africa in 1970s, but was quite unknown until Rock Hudson died. Before that hundreds of thousands of african people had died, but noone noticed.

Its really sickening, but at least people is getting knoledge about all this and slowly, but steadily, people work for a better world.

At least, in this matter, future is brighter than past.

[mietla]

The US government spends $228,310,502/hour (2 trillion/year). If you could only shut them down for an hour and a half, we could solve the problem, wouldn't we.

But wait, that would not work. The government is a living organisn (a cancer), it knows how to protect itself. Even if it shut down, the employees still get the money. For them, it's an extra, fully paid vacation.

I guess we just have to raise taxes again.

[mietla]

Dowding,

The farmaceutical company did exactly what they suppose to. No market for the product, shut the production down. After all they have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders (you and me).

In Capitalism, the solution to the problem is pretty simple. The people of good will (you and me), realize that there is a problem. We create a non-profit foundation (tax exempt), and voluntarily provide the needed $300 (the Capital). What we just did, is to create the market, where we (not the actual receipients of a drug) are the customer.  The farmaceutical company responds to that, with a drug production. And look everybody wins.

We (you and me) are happy. We have helped some people in need.
The company makes money.
The shareholders (you and me) make money.
The African folks get the drug.
The new employees hired by the company are happy to have a job.
The money earned by the employees gets spend, so the newly produced wealth is spread around.

Who loses? the politicians in the government who lost a chance to increase their control over the people.


In Socialisn, the solution to the problem is also simple. There is no company, it was ran into the ground by the government. The government says "we sympathize with our African friends", nothing gets done, and the African folks die.

Capitalism does work.

[AKDejaVu]

 

AIDS was in africa in 1970s, but was quite unknown until Rock Hudson died. Before that hundreds of thousands of african people had died, but noone noticed.

Erm.. everyone in the US was well aware of AIDS prior to Rock Hudson dying.  Actually, more people were aware of AIDS than Rock Hudson.

AKDejaVu

[AKDejaVu]

Actually Dowding, there is more-better stories out there for you to research.

Look up a little information on "The World Trade Organization".  Also, check out the WTO's actions/allowances in regards to shrimp farming in India and surounding countries.

How about Monsanto's forcing of hybrid seed that require special fertilizers and don't generate seed (requiring a new seed purchase every season).

Basically, you can do better than this troll.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 09-23-2000).]

[Dowding]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Actually Dowding, there is more-better stories out there for you to research.

Basically, you can do better than this troll.

Well, excuse me for posting anything here without checking with you AKDejaVu. It's very clear you are a moral authority on all matters, and have the ability to decide which 'stories' are 'better'. I wasn't somehow saying that it was the greatest catastrophe in the world you know, just how it is symptomatic of the pharmeceutrical company's approach to African issues. As for it being a 'troll' - it wasn't, I was under the impression that it was a little heard of problem  - the program I watched was called "Hidden Stories" or something similar. While it's clear you aren't interested (feel free not to post anything here if you want), I thought other people might be.

Mietla, it's a very clockwork-operated world you seem to inhabit, isn't it? I might even go far enough to say 'Newtonian'. There are quite a few flaws in your sequence of events, the most obvious being that this issue is not a new one. This being true, why hasn't there been a charitable organisation formed to solve the problem in the way you describe? Considering all the problems Africa has, and all the respective charities trying to sort them out, I doubt $300 million could be amassed (by you or me) - your argument rests on this money being available. And this is just the money required to start production of the drug - it doesn't take into account the money needed for continued production, distribution, or the training of suitably qualified personnel.

You say the company did exactly what its supposed to - it serves it's shareholders. But does that make it right? I have to disagree.

I get the feeling that you are anti-socialist (from this and other posts). You have to realise that this problem (and the many others similar to it) transcends politics. The drug problem of Africa is showing up the failings of our developed world; it's a similar problem with food. The world community is failing a whole continent.

 

Originally posted by Mietla:
...so the newly produced wealth is spread around.

BTW, what you describe here is a key tenet of socialism.

As for socialism 'running companies into the ground' (paraphrazing here), I think you might be getting communism confused with socialism? Britain is under a socialist government, but I don't see too many institutions (such as the health service) being run into the ground. They aren't great, but they are better than when the conservatives were in power.

 

Quote:
...nothing gets done, and the African folks die.

This is exactly the situation now, today - I don't see how any other system can do any worse, if not better. Regarding capitalism 'working' - sure it works, for people who have money - but for those less fortunate than ourselves, who are born outside our cosy, pampered world, it does absolutely nothing.

[Maverick]

Dowding,

Since, as you say, Britain is a socialist country and obviously they are aware of this African problem, the Brits will take care of the drug that is needed correct?
 How soon may we see the socialist solution completed?

Mav

[AKDejaVu]

It doesn't work like that Mavrick.  Dowding has to sit back and critique everyone else's actions or lack of actions.

If someone doesn't do something.. its all their fault it didn't get done.

BTW dowding.. the title of the thread is "Capitalism".  The story then pertains to that?  Is there anything beind done by non-capatilist sectors?

Nah.. didn't think so.  Unless you count whining about captilists not doing anything.

AKDejaVu

[Toad]

Where are those dang socialist pharmaceutical companies when you really need them anyway?

 

[Naso]

People, maybe you jumped up too easy.

I dont think Dowding's post was a troll.

I am guilty to have sometime trolled here and there, for the fun of see you jumping up and bashing me, but this question is quite different.

We all, me and you, live in a capitalistic country, assuming "capitalism" is an economical issue, and not a political one, in fact we all live in a "democracy", more left or more right side.

For what i understand, dowding pointed a limit of this economical organization, his egoistic behaviour, and as he said he dont make confrontations with the communist economy, like you jumped up and done.

The problem he point is a BIG problem in the world and has to do with our coscience, as citizens of the rich and wealthy countries.
Another fact he pointed is there are stocks existing and this stocks will be destroyed this year, why destroy this life granting stocks ?
Bring it to the people needing them !!

And Mietla, capitalism works FOR YOU, not for the homeless starving 100 meters from your nose.

But egoism is part of the capitalistic education so i am not surprised.

It's so bad to dream and look for happines for every citizen of this poor world?

Only money count?

Sad, sad.  

p.s.
And Toad look at your post, why you whine we always bash US, when every argument treated is reduced by you in a US centered POV?
Can we talk freely without involving the nationalistic issues?
please?


[This message has been edited by Naso (edited 09-25-2000).]

[AKDejaVu]

 

Another fact he pointed is there are stocks existing and this stocks will be destroyed this year, why destroy this life granting stocks ?

He didn't say stocks would be destroyed, he said they would run out.

There are many things in his story, however that seem askew.

1) 300 million to make a drug?  Gotta wonder about that one.  300 million to make anything is a bit extreme... if you are talking US dollars?  Maybe it would be better to give the currency you are referencing.

2) Someone is going to put it in a facial hair removal formula?  Since when does facial hair removal become a $300 million industry?

This story is a generalization of capitalism at its worst. It is also a story that is vague and misleading.

Once again.. you can do better than this dowding.

AKDejaVu

[AKDejaVu]

If you want to contribute to fighting sleeping sickness.. check out this site:

 http://www.imc-la.com/programs/sudan.html

If you want capitalists to handle it.. do nothing.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by Naso:
I am guilty to have sometime trolled here and there, for the fun of see you jumping up and bashing me...

And Toad look at your post....
[This message has been edited by Naso

(edited 09-25-2000).]

Wow! Hooked and landed a giant Naso-fish without trolling at all!

Yes, Naso, PLEASE look at both my posts!

First post: Used the "BIG GRIN" after each paragraph.

Second Post: Used the "SMILE".

Now, from MY pov, the BIG GRIN indicates a joke.......in fact I said I was just kidding!

The SMILE says the same thing. It's a J-O-K-E.

You're too easy to catch, Naso...so I'll throw you back. After all, I wasn't even fishing.

Maybe it's that Italian centered POV that makes you so easy to land. Touchy, Touchy, Touchy! Take a de-e-e-e-p breath...relax.


Laugh! Smile!

Life is no drill, you only get one pass. You don't want to die all tensed up, now do you?

                         


[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 09-25-2000).]