Author Topic: The Brewster....  (Read 1499 times)

storch

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The Brewster....
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2006, 07:44:12 PM »
the FM2 is way too uber for a sub but it is not way to uber for the planeset.  I don't think that there would be too much difference between the killing ability of the HurriIIb with 12 .303x333 rpg and the hurriIIc with 4 20mmx182rpg.  the result would be the same if the thing floated as if it were helium filled.  that's my complaint, well that and the kill a guy in china from miami 20mm hissos but the .303s are just as lethal.

Offline Wmaker

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The Brewster....
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2006, 07:56:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shifty
The only reference to"Finns" in this thread is about how the "Finns" Buffalo is modified from the American F2A. If your accusing Americans of trying to paint some evil Finnish plot.............. Then I would suggest you are already saying "americans here do this/ that.":lol


Yep,

About the "finns-thing"...I made the comment based on several threads on this forum on a longer period (and the implication to "not just this post" is pretty clearly evident IMO). Just remember how you answered to Blauk...how for finns it's about winning and so on...

EDIT/And no, I'm not trying to accuse americans of anything they just happens to be the biggest national group flying this sim so it emphasized my point...which is that "not all the finns are the same, think the same and so on. And I thought that was pretty clearly evident in my post too. Either I should brush up my english or.../EDIT
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 08:05:50 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline TheBug

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The Brewster....
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2006, 08:23:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wmaker


- Hurricane 2C subs Hurricane IIB and IIA and is a good match for the FM-2

 



That is a most excellent point and a take on the argument that I never even considered until you said it.  

To argue Hurri IIc this or Fm-2 that after reading Wmaker's post is completely senseless.  It is left at either keep both and enjoy yourself or take both out and neuter the entire RPS planeset for this theater.

Let's stop constantly searching for ways we're not having fun and just start enjoying the game.

Laugh all you want, it truly is that easy.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
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Offline Wmaker

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The Brewster....
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2006, 08:43:38 PM »
Thank you Bug!

Finally!! At least ONE soul who sees how silly this whole FM-2 -episode is!! :)

I agree that the current plane set is fairly balanced and in that sence the RPS can work. But in the light of authensity and the fact that I don't like flying subbed planes myself I'd really like to see Finland run with the late war set alone (summer '44). Then the plane set would be more authentic. Though in AH2 it's significantly harder for the 109s than it used to be during AH1 days.

Obviously, THE BEST solution would be to have all the correct planes available.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 08:54:26 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline Slash27

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The Brewster....
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2006, 09:04:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheBug
Let's stop constantly searching for ways we're not having fun and just start enjoying the game.

Laugh all you want, it truly is that easy.



Always wondered why this is so hard.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2006, 09:08:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
It could, and I have suggested that several times. The only real issue there is the 6x50cal where the Brewster only had 4x50cal.


The f4f is even worse than the fm2 -- it has the same wing area as fm2, less weight (closer to the brewster), and 50% **more** guns!

STILL far too good to sub for the brewster.

Offline Krusty

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The Brewster....
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2006, 09:44:43 PM »
As a small note: I might have made some sort of "Fin" reference, but if I did it was not meant to intone some sort of "conspiracy" (lord knows we have enough of those!), it was simply in passing.

As far as Hurr2c and FM2 complimenting each other: perhaps each other, but NOT the rest of the planeset. The Hurr2c hispano guns are at least 2x as powerful as the 12x303cal that the IIB had. In AH, the hispano round takes 3 50cal rounds to equal, and I believe it is 3 or more 30cal/303cal to equal the 50cal. So that means if you had a Hurr2c with only 1 gun enabled (all other 3 shot away) it would still be more powerful than a fully functioning Hurr1 with 8x303cal guns. In fact, even with just 1 Hispano working, you'd need to further add at least 1 more 303cal to the Hurr1 to equal the hitting power, at LEAST one.

Then add in the fact that you have 4 of the guns, and 1 hurr2c packs a punch more than 4x as strong as the hurr1 with 8 smaller guns.

It doesn't match. Performance, perhaps, but it's like saying "Oh, the ta152C is like the 190D, so we can sub them" -- might fly the same but BAM the punch is greatly enhanced.

FM2, I can see WHY it was originally chosen, but I'm saying it no longer HAS to be chosen for tradition's sake. This is not to change what we have, this is to start the change for NEXT TIME. Perhaps one should be less concerned with looks and more so with performance. It might lead to a much better balance.

So, the FM2 and the Hurr2 are both too good, it balances the field, right? Wrong. They're not the only planes in the set. Hurr2c is competitve in the late war because of its "instant-kill no matter what the angle" feature. This unbalances the planeset in the beginning and the middle of the time frame. FM2 might be good because it's used later in the RPS, but that screws everything over early in the RPS. P40B is a good plane. It's not entirely horrible. However, when compared to a 1944 FM2 it's dog meat plain and simple. Same for P40E. Hell even the 109F4 has a bit of trouble with the Hurr2c. Heck, with a firepower that didn't start showing up in fighters until late '43 and '44, the Hurr2c in early '42 totally overwhelms anything else.

So for discussion's sake, these two planes being complementary with their "being too good for a sub" status does not make things even. It just makes things worse for both sides, instead of one side or the other.

Offline Airscrew

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The Brewster....
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2006, 09:45:39 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusty
The f4f is even worse than the fm2 -- it has the same wing area as fm2, less weight (closer to the brewster), and 50% **more** guns!

STILL far too good to sub for the brewster.


50%?  wouldnt be more like 20% more guns?

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2006, 09:47:14 PM »
FM2: 4 50cal guns
F4F: 6 50cal guns

It has 100% of the FM2, then 50% more.

Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2006, 09:59:17 PM »
i cant help myself :)

FM2: 4 ea 50cal guns = 25% per gun = 100%
F4F: 6 ea 50cal guns = 16.6% per gun = 100%

F4F has two more guns than FM2, each gun is 16.6% then then the F4F has 33.2% more guns :noid

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 10:02:53 PM »
Negative, when comparing something you use the whole, then add on top of that the percentage of the "whole" it has above that.

So by saying "50% more" you're really saying "has 150% that of" (in this case, "... of the FM2").

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 10:15:02 PM »
So, the consensus is that both the FM2, and the HurriIIc are ridiculously uber relative to the planes they are subbing for, are a good matchup performance-wise, and make for good fights, which you wouldn't have otherwise due to the many aircraft that are absent from the planeset?

If I understood correctly, and this is in fact what some of you are saying, I'm in agreement.

Plus, I'd fly crappy bipes on karelia, just because I'm fond of that map. ;)
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Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2006, 10:16:29 PM »
ok, so I cant confuse you with that how bout this??:cool:

FM2 4 x50cal w/ 430 rpg = 1720 rds
F4F  6 x50cal w/ 240 rpg = 1440 rds

also Hanger setup shows you can setup F4F with 4 50cals.  maybe the 6 gun option could be locked out?

Offline Wmaker

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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2006, 10:23:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
As far as Hurr2c and FM2 complimenting each other: perhaps each other, but NOT the rest of the planeset.




You truly sometimes leave me speechless...almost.

I don't remember a single Hurricane Mk.I pilot during the Fin/Rus days in the CT crying bloody murder because the plane they were flying was so horribly out classed by the treaded La-5FNs and Yak-9Ts. FM-2 was there then, so were P-40s and Hurri2Cs.

With your logic we'd have perfect balance when we'd have many plane choises on both sides but they would all use the same generic FM.

There isn't a complete balance in plane performance in the MA or in other AvA setups either and yet people fly in them.

There will ALWAYS be the best plane (depending on the task) for both sides. It's everyone's choise wether they up a Hurri2C or P-40B / FM-2 or Hurri1.

Sometimes if people would just type less and fly more the AvA would be much more fun...
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Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2006, 10:30:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wmaker


You truly sometimes leave me speechless...almost.
....
Sometimes if people would just type less and fly more the AvA would be much more fun...

Sorry bout that.  I'm just here for the argument;)  and to pull Krusty's chain:p
I could care less what planes are used, i can without a doubt sux in all of them equally