Salutations SAW,
Originally posted by Saintaw
I *think* that the conversion rate to islam in Yurop is very, very low when it comes to locals. the immigration is still (too) high, but I think a lot of pple here (not including poland) are simply just 'tired' of anything that is related to a religion or another. I am no anthopologist/socilogist, but this is based on what I see day to day and I have been livin in Yurop for the last 15 years+.
Statistically, you are correct, Islam is not the most likely choice for conversion, especially when compared to the rate of conversion to say Buddhism. The last stats I saw for the UK for instance were 180,000 conversions to Buddhism, compared to 40,000 to Islam. But what the relatively low numbers don't take into account is the fact that of those 180,000 converts to Buddhism, none of them are likely to become suicide bombers or Jihadis, while many of the new converts to Islam (such as Muriel Degalque of Belgium) are being actively recruited by groups like AQ. Also we need to recognize that after nominal Christianity and Atheism, Islam is inevitably the third largest religious group in European populations. Given that most European Christians do not attend church or actively pursue their religion (10-11% is a high estimate) this means that Muslims are often the largest religiously zealous group in any European country. They are also the most unified in terms of their identity.
As far as "tired of religion" is concerned, that is certainly true of Christianity. C.S. Lewis, writing many years ago, put it very well when he said, the difference between discussing Christianity with an African and a European was like the difference between discussing marriage with a virgin and a divorcee. Europe has a "been there, done that" post-Christian attitude that certainly hardens them against it, despite the fact that few if any Europeans can really tell you about what the Christian faith consists of any more. But, that doesn't mean they are totally closed off to religion. Man is at heart a worshipping creature, and modern Europeans are turning to non-Christian religions in droves.
Anyway, here is an interesting article from the CSmonitor on the appeal of Islam to European women that touches on these issues (for those unfamiliar with the Christian Science monitor, despite the name it is not a "Christian" newspaper)
Why European Women are Turning to Islam
Sorry if I was not clear in my previous post, I meant to say that we (western civilisations) are acting like 20th century missionaries who are out to 'enlighten' people to our ways of life because they are 'better'. I am in a good position to see what this has given in the past (my family spent 1/2 century in colonised Africa) and I don't see much good comming out of that one either... [/B]
Saw, our perspectives are obviously very different seeing as I am a "European" who converted to Evangelical Christianity later in life. I too have spent a considerable amount of time abroad, and have had a lot of contact with evangelical missionaries currently working in the Muslim world. They are working not to persuade Muslims to adopt western culture, but to become believers in Jesus. Even if you don't believe a word of the Christian faith, even a utilitarian should see the advantages to this. If you become a follower of Christ, you are no longer a believer in Sharia law, and are no longer a prospect for recruitment by Jihadists, in fact you become one of their primary targets, because for Muslim apostates (
irtdad) living in the Dar-El-Islam, the sword is constantly hanging over their heads as Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi of the Muhammadi Islamic Center of Canada put it:
"And that is why Islam has prescribed harsh punishment for irtidăd. It must be emphasized that irtidăd which we are discussing here involves open rejection, without any force and with the realization of what one's statements or actions imply. The punishment prescribed by the shari'a for apostacy is death.
Even the terms used by the shari'a for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli. (1) Murtad Fitri means a person born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. Fitri means nature or natural. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostated from his nature, the nature of believing in God. (2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means a community. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his community.
In the first case, the apostacy is like treason against God; whereas in the second case, the apostacy is like treason against the Muslim community. Probably, that is why there is also a difference in dealing with these two kinds of murtads:
A former kăfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed.
But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allăh but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world." In any event, you believe that the fruit of modern evagelical missionary endeavors is not good, I've seen and experienced the opposite however, both in terms of the massive assistance given to impoverished people by missionary organizations, the new way of life they live afterwards, and the hope and peace that they have both here and hereafter.
- SEAGOON
