Author Topic: Sanctions work?  (Read 509 times)

Offline john9001

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2006, 08:56:51 AM »
nilsen, you know better than that, you can't quote politicians, they always say nice-nice.

Offline WhiteHawk

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2006, 09:03:17 AM »
I think sanctions are most effective in limiting the financial power of a country rather than forcing them to comply.

Offline straffo

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2006, 09:28:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Bzzzzzzrrrrrtttt.



Airpower, Aug 2002 (USAF publication)


"Merde de Boeuf"

it was a lie on 02-12-2003 04:32 AM

Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
...
Item: french technical teams remained in argentenia in support of exocet missle deployment during the falklands conflict.
...


And it still is ,the key is to understand is the use of the word apparently
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 09:48:53 AM by straffo »

Offline Hangtime

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2006, 09:46:26 AM »
Straffo, at the time the conflict started the argentines had zero deployment of the exocet. They did not have the technical expertise with the system to finish the installation on the super entenards. Dassault (french governemnt owned) rectified the situation AFTER hostilites were declared and the embargo went in place. The Dassault team WAS there, they DID the work, the exocets were mated to the planes, the system de- bugged and sucessufly deployed, all 'behind the scenes'.

Thats fact, and history. You, as a French Citizen must come to terms with the fact that your governemnt and your big corporations are every bit as underhanded, dirty, corrupt and reprehensible as ours. Possibly that's the difference between us.. we KNOW our government is crooked, while you seem to think yours is holy or something.

Now, repeat after me... "Big Governemnt serves Big Corporations. They do things beyond the pale for political or economic advantage and intrests, often beyond the law and almost always contrary to the best interests of it's citizens".

Now, have a nice day; and don't forget to vote.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline straffo

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2006, 09:49:55 AM »
What about asking your closed allies in middle east ?

They are very competent in french electronic ... when they had Mirage etc ...

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2006, 09:57:00 AM »
If your alluding to our government and corporations playing both sides of the fence (just like yours does) then you are no doubt correct.

Dassault had, in their eyes, had a damn good reason for continuing support for the exocets... it's called getting PAID for the close to 1 billion dollars worth of equipment and hi-tech armament already in the country when the conflict erupted... those contracdts included the dassault technicans.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Hangtime

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2006, 10:16:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
What about asking your closed allies in middle east ?

They are very competent in french electronic ... when they had Mirage etc ...


Henh. It just dawned on me you are refering to israel "our closed allies in the middle east". Your typo is more correct than you might imagine... they are in fact 'closed' to us... while they deploy espinoge agents in this country and steal us blind they are in fact supposed to be our closest allies in the middle east.

Which begs the question... just who is Frances 'closest allies' in the middle east?

hmmmmm?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline straffo

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2006, 10:29:29 AM »
Sincerely I don't know :)

I mean today ,yesterday or tomorrow ?

Offline WhiteHawk

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2006, 10:30:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
If your alluding to our government and corporations playing both sides of the fence (just like yours does) then you are no doubt correct.

Dassault had, in their eyes, had a damn good reason for continuing support for the exocets... it's called getting PAID for the close to 1 billion dollars worth of equipment and hi-tech armament already in the country when the conflict erupted... those contracdts included the dassault technicans.


Yes indeed.  Some wars are fought just for the sake of boosting the profits of  politically connected corporations.  This is a global thing, although it certainly couldnt happen in the US.  We go to church.

Offline 2Slow

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2006, 10:34:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
I think sanctions are most effective in limiting the financial power of a country rather than forcing them to comply.


Exactly!  They will still do as they please within their own borders.  They will reassign limited resources to attain their goal.  Their citizens will suffer from this.  They will make propaganda blaming the sanctioning parties for this suffering.  They will gain their stated national goal.  Then they will look to impose their will on their neighbors and make retribution on the sanctioning parties.

When faced with a difficult problem one can often reduce it to the smallest units of participation to gain an understanding of the larger issue.

You live in a gated community.  The Home Owners Association (UN) has ruled that no firearms may be brought into the community and those who already have firearms may keep them.  You and six other residences are known to own firearms.  It is suspected that several others may own them as well.

It is allowed that everyone may possess slingshots and baseball bats for defense of their residence.

One of your neighbors, a few blocks away, has a feud with another of your neighbors.  They are both separated a few blocks.  This person is slight of build and knows that he will not prevail against the other neighbor in a battle of slingshots and baseball bats.  He also suspects that his opponent owns an undeclared firearm.

Reports start to circulate in the community that the belligerent neighbor is building a firearm in his basement shop.  Granted, his firearm will be primitive compared to the modern ones owned by others.  His will be a flint lock model.

The Home Owners Association meets and discusses the matter.  They agree that invading his home to stop this activity is not allowed.  They also agree that his activity is not good.  To deter him they impose sanctions on him.  His electricity and water is shut off.  Deliveries to him are restricted and inspected to insure he is not importing the means to accomplish his goal.

This serves only to slow him down.  He has limited resources to generate some electricity.  He digs a well for water.  Neighbors, concerned for the health of his family (citizens), sneak supplies to him that could have a dual use.  Besides, they say, he won’t use it even if he makes it.  He rewards their good deeds with money.  It is reported that his efforts in the basement continue.  Activities observed on his property indicate he is making progress on his firearm.

What do you do?  Nothing:  He finishes his firearm and using a fast sports car, which cannot be intercepted, drives over to the neighbor he is in dispute with and shoots him.
Act:  You invade his home, destroy his means to manufacture a firearm.  He resists the effort and you use your firearm to defeat him.  His family is liberated from the depravation and abuse he has inflicted upon them to gain his goal.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 10:36:17 AM by 2Slow »
2Slow
Secundum mihi , urbanus resurrectio
TANSTAAFL

Offline 2Slow

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2006, 10:40:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Sincerely I don't know :)

I mean today ,yesterday or tomorrow ?


LAMO
2Slow
Secundum mihi , urbanus resurrectio
TANSTAAFL

Offline Hangtime

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2006, 10:54:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Sincerely I don't know :)

I mean today ,yesterday or tomorrow ?


Fair enough. So answer all three, to the best of your ability.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline straffo

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Sanctions work?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2006, 03:58:21 PM »
Yesterday Israel (and Syria but not openly) ,today  Lebanon (and Isreal but not openly)

 tomorow ... I don't know.