Choice of Ammo load in F4U/F6F

[Saxman]

Hm. I USUALLY don't have much trouble with having to unload into most single engine fighters when I'm hitting the target (the occaisonal frustrated spraying not included). Convergence set to d300 in an F4U with shots at anywhere between 200-400yds range typically has been doing a quite nice job sawing off parts for me with a couple half to one-second burst against most of the more common single-engine birds (although again, this is when the shot hits).

Maybe it's a connection thing? I've noticed you seem to have a lot of rubber bullets issues even with taters.

Bombers I have to agree, tho. .50 cal in general doesn't seem to do much to Buffs unless you're lucky enough to get a pass that puts your guns in just the right spot (3-4 passes with sustained fire against a B-24 earlier tonight only managed to light one engine on fire. He went down, yeah, but that was a lot of ammo). I had one of those sorties myself a couple days ago, where I sprayed the hell out of a formation of Lancs, including starting one smoking, but only got three assists for the trouble (that was a bad day. Everything was an assist ).

[F4UDOA]

If you look at the listings for the F4U and F6F they have three or more loadouts listed.

The fighter loadout is approx 178 gallons for both and 1200 rounds. The overloadload fighter condition is full fuel full ammo and then the next is fighter bomber.

Like Saxman says what good is 2400 rounds when your wings are flying in one direction and your fuselage in the other.

350lbs is a big deal when you are dodging Spit XVI's and La7's all day.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Mister ED


Now back to your subject:

The term "The whole nine yards" came from having to choose fuel VS ammo due to wieght restrictions.

 

It's in reference to emptying your guns not choosing betweem ammo load out vs. fuel.  Example of usage, "I gave that rice ball the whole nine yards and he blew up like 4th of July fireworks."



ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Krusty
Considering the term "whole 9 yards" didn't show up til the 70s, I doubt very much it is war related. Too many urban myths surround that phrase. It's relatively modern, NOT WW2 related, NOT sail-ship related.

Nope, it's not relatively modern and while no concrete proof as to the origin of this phrase it is widely regarded to have started in WW2 as part of the combat pilots slang.



ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by F4UDOA
In almost every aircraft in AH there is a choice of ammo load at takeoff. Even in smaller A/C that didn't carry much in the first place.

 

I would like to see an accurate ammo/ordnance loadouts for each plane.  There are ordnance load outs that were commonly used by some planes that aren't reflected in here.  The P-38L was capable and often did carry 3 1,000 pound bombs but there is no such option.  F6F was capable of carrying those big 11 inch rockets (forgot the name of them) but again, that's not an option for the Hellcat in AH.



ack-ack

[Murdr]

The Phrase Finder
The whole nine yards
Meaning
All of it - full measure.
Origin
Of all the feedback that The Phrase Finder site gets this is the phrase that causes the most feedback and the most disagreement. At the outset it should be said that no one knows the origin, although many have a fervent belief that they do. These convictions are unfailingly based on no more evidence than 'someone told me'.
It is most likely that, as with many phrases, it originated in colloquial use and has been appropriated as a general term meaning full measure. It crops up in many contexts, which isn't surprising as there are many things that can be measured in yards. This leads to many plausible explanations of the phrase's origin; regrettably, plausibility isn't enough.
The earliest known reference to the phrase in print is as recent as 1967 in 'The Doom *****', a novel about the Vietnam War by Elaine Shepard. In that context the phrase refers to the difficulties a character has with disentangling himself from an unwanted marriage. It isn't clear if the author coined the phrase herself, although the manner of its use in the story would suggest not. Ms. Shepard died in September 1998, so unfortunately we can't ask her.
Although the precise origin of any particular phrase may be difficult to determine, the date of its coinage usually isn't. Phrases that are accepted into common use appear in newspapers, court reports, novels etc. very soon after they are coined and continue to do so for as long as the phrase is in use. Anyone putting forward an explanation of an origin the the whole nine yards that dates from before the 1960s has to explain the lack of a printed record of it prior to 1967. If, to take the most commonly repeated version for instance, the phrase comes from the length of W.W.II machine gun belts, why is there no printed account of that in the thousands of books written about the war and the countless millions of newspaper editions published throughout the 1950s and 60s? The ideas that it pre-dates the war and goes back to the 19th century or even the Middle Ages are hardly plausible.
These are some of the versions going the rounds: take your pick...
It comes from the nine cubic yards capacity of US concrete trucks and dates from around 1970s.
The explanation refers to World War II aircraft, which if proved correct would clearly predate the concrete truck version. There are several aircraft related sources, 1. the length of US bombers bomb racks, 2. the length of RAF Spitfire's machine gun bullet belts, 3. the length of ammunition belts in ground based anti-aircraft turrets, etc. No evidence to show that any of these measured nine yards has been forthcoming.
Tailors use nine yards of material for top quality suits. Related to 'dressed to the nines'?
The derivation has even been suggested as being naval and that the yards are shipyards rather than measures of area or volume.
Another naval version is that the yards are yardarms. Large sailing ships had three masts, each with three yardarms. The theory goes that ships in battle can continue changing direction as new sails are unfurled. Only when the last sail, on the ninth yardarm, is used do the enemy know which direction the ship is finally headed.
A mediaeval test requiring the victim to walk nine paces over hot coals.

If anyone has any hard evidence of this phrase being used before 1967, e.g. an appearance of the phrase in print, we would love to see it. Please post your feedback at the Phrase Finder Discussion Forum - but please, evidence not conjecture.
http://www.babylon.com/definition/whole/English

[Schutt]

Having lighter loadout possibilities for some of the fighters would really be nice, also taking into account the max takeoff wight would be nice.
When you say full ammo+ full fuel is already to heavy, how can one take off with full ammo+ full fuel+ bombs + rockets?

[Masherbrum]

I just noticed this DOA, sorry for not posting earlier.  While the F6F had the largest wing area of any WWII Single Engined Fighter, I love this thing.  I agree, we SHOULD have the option of ammo choices in both the Hellcat and Corsairs.   I always wondered why this has happened?

Karaya

[Krusty]

Murdr has it spot-on. There's also another theory that says it came from a sportscaster making a comment about a football game. I think this might be likely because football started getting really popular in the 60s and 70s.

[Ack-Ack]

Really hate to burst your bubble Krusty but you can find ample evidence that it was used by pilots in WW2.  For example in "First Light" by Geoffrey Wellum he mentions telling his ground crew how he fired the whole nine yards.  


ack-ack

[Saxman]

There a quote? What's the date of publication?

[Krusty]

Yes, post the publication date.

It's one thing to remember exactly every word said on an arbitrary date in a hectic time of one's young life, on a date that happened half a century ago. It's another to paraphrase, or pick a similar saying that conveys the same meaning but wasn't the exact words used at the time.

Heck, there are several WW2 pilot-authors that don't have their facts straight, as has been reported by several members of this forum. Who's to say he wasn't sitting there trying to remember what happened, then just phrased it in his words *now* about how he was feeling *then*.

[Stang]

F4u and F6f have mediocre ammo loads?  LOL, they have the biggest baddest ammo loads in the game just about, good for 10+ kills easily.

[Saxman]

I think a lot of that was in regards to attacking heavy bombers, which yeah, with .50 cal you may as well be spitting on those buffs.

[F4UDOA]

At the risk of sounding like an AH wuss I generally fly the other way if I am up in a 50 cal bird and not in a position of advantage attacking buffs.

With 50 cals I find the HO works best. Flying up the tail is just a waste of time and (virtual) sheet metal.