Sky over Odenwald - Close Escort Sunday March 5th

[AutoPilot]

262s were far more common than 163s.

Actually no they weren't,the German's had far more problem's keeping the 262's in the air than the 163's.If i can research this info then so can you.

[BlkKnit]

Originally posted by Delirium
What is stopping the Axis from all taking 262s up? Killing one engine and throttling back will give you plenty of time in the air.

No offense, I was thinking about attending and wanted more info.

This event uses missions.  If the CM wanted to limit the number of 262's then the mission could easily reflect that by having minimal slots available.  As it turned out, there were more 262's used than maybe should have been (3 out of 9 axis pilots, I believe), but the allies managed to clobber the target and many made it home in one piece (or 2 hehe).

It would be very nice to get some squads involved in this event.  even 2 or 3 committed players from a half dozen different squads would realy liven up the event.

[Engine]

Originally posted by Boxboy
Yep just as I suspected only 300 or so produced and fewer than that actually flew and ONLY 9 CK's

The goon didn't get many kills either. I vote we remove it from the game.

[Delirium]

Engine, the use a 262 in a scenario is a little different than the MA. Scenarios and single day events try to closely emulate history as much as possible within a game enviornment.

Suffice to say, I saw the number of possible 262s in this scenario, raised a question (note I was the 1st reply) and used that to decide whether or not I would attend.

It seemed that a rather large number of 262 sorties would be flown (far above what was done historically) so I decided not to attend. It has nothing to do with having a grievance over one plane or another.

[Engine]

Oh, I know. Personally, I don't think I'd find a scenario packed with 262s and 163s fun, even if historically accurate (which apparently this is not?)

[Boxboy]

Originally posted by Engine
The goon didn't get many kills either. I vote we remove it from the game.

Hmmm one was a fighter the other a cargo plane, you having some apple and orange problems Engine???  I Note your from the "city" maybe thats the problem LOL

[E25280]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
Actually no they weren't,the German's had far more problem's keeping the 262's in the air than the 163's.If i can research this info then so can you.

Guess I am missing something.  I base my statement on the facts I found (granted, with a limited amount of time/patience on my part).

Basically, 300 163s vs 1,400 262s produced.

9 kills from 163s vs up to 735 in 262s.

300+ 262s operational each month last 6 months of the war despite fuel shortages and other operational difficulties.  With 300-360 of the 163s produced and similar operational difficulties, I would assume far fewer 163s were available at any given time than 262s.

Finally, on a purely anecdotal (therefore, purely useless) level, I have read many articles in WW2 magazine where they interview bomber pilots or gunners or such from the air campaigns.  Several of them refer to 262 attacks.  I can not recall any of them referring to a 163 attack.  (Again, anecdotal and therefore unreliable, especially given the state of my memory, but I throw it out there anyway.)

So that is why I am truly puzzled by your comment.

[Engine]

Originally posted by Boxboy
Hmmm one was a fighter the other a cargo plane, you having some apple and orange problems Engine???  I Note your from the "city" maybe thats the problem LOL

I don't care, we should still remove it and ferry troops on those wonderful huge-wheeled 1800s bicycles. With invasion stripes.

[Krusty]

FYI: I did a quick search on Google, pulled up 2-3 links any they all had similar listings (1400 +/-) so I used that number.

262s were fairly common. Consider that even if hte 1400 is the "produced" and not the "active" number, the same ratio is probably found in the 190Ds, of which only 600-or-so were built (that's produced, not "active"). ~600 is from memory. Maybe ~700. That's still 1/2 to 1/3 the total numbers of the 262. Also, jet fuel was not so scarce as the Dora's fuel, since there were only a couple of different jey types using it, yet most of the prop-driven force was fighting for the same gas the Dora had.

The 262 was (anecdotally) a lethal contender in the war. One might as well say the SpitXIV should be removed from the game because it only had so many kills. Or might as well say the C-Hog should be removed because only 200 were made.

You can't just say "The 262 should be removed because it didn't do anything" -- when it did do stuff. Lots of it. It didn't turn the war, but then neither did any other LW planes.

[Krusty]

As for the scenario run:

It was about a dozen Allied pilots, consisting of late war planes including Tempests, escorting numerous B17s. We had 2 axis pilots just as the timer was about to start. Then a 3rd came in. So it was us 3 Me262s vs 12+ enemy, and their fighters would be all gunning for us. We had no qualms what-so-ever taking up 262s if only for their speed.

As we were getting airborn a small group of other axis pilots showed up in the non-jet mission (Ta152s, 190Ds, and 109K4s I think) and they took off as well.

So... you think jets are the uber, do you? You think jets are so hot that they're instant killers, eh?

*cough*bs*cough*.

They have speed. That's it. They are not manuverable in the least. They are prone to instant damage from snapshots. Hell I got all of 1 pass on a set of b17s before I lost a rudder, which means I couldn't hit s*** afterwards. I tried to make 2 more passes but I couldn't aim without a rudder, so I tried a slower approach to give me more time to correct and Mr lazer-buff-gunner shot me to s*** right on the spot.

262s the great equalizer, right? WRONG!!

There's no problem with them in scenarios or in the MA, because they suck so bad. Those that disagree don't fly them. Even if you know how to fly one, you're not going to dogfight one, you're not going to play P51 in one, because pull 5Gs and you rip wings off, dive too fast and you compress (easily done in a 262), you can't accelerate fast, you lose an engine and you're barely able to fly steady at 250mph, your gun fire very fast so if you're not careful you can literally waste 380 rounds of 30mm in 1 firing pass, you can't kill in 1 pass even if you get multiple hit sprites on a bomber, because the 30mm are porked or the bullets are rubber (happens to me all the time, numerous hits no damage), you can't do anything once you sustain damage.

The plane sucks. No reason to remove it.

Once you get 160 perks or so take one up and see for yourself. Just be ready to lose those perks the second you take off, because there's a 80% chance you won't make it back with your aircraft intact.