Author Topic: A question about guns... (Read 1931 times)

indy007 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 17, 2006, 01:00:29 PM »

Uh, Timmy... appearently those people didn't pay very much attention in English (or History for that matter).

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Let's break it down...

"A well regulated Militia, being neccessary to the security of a free State,"

Okay, fair enough, a regulated militia is needed to secure the State from foreign aggressors. You do realise the constitution was written by men who had just fought a war against a tyrannical state militia.... right?

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

If it had anything to do with the right of the militia to keep and bear arms, wouldn't it say, "the right of the militia" ? It doesn't. It says the right of the people.

It's okay Timmy, you can rest assured that whatever I say is meaningless. I'm a criminal. Everytime I take my guns out of the safe and put them in the car for a trip to the range, I violate one of your "common sense" laws. Under any other circumstances it would be a legal activity, however, since I live a certain distance from a school that I can't see from my house (nor even drive past on the way out), I break a gun law.

Thanks for helping to criminalize my behavior. I appreciate it.

john9001 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 17, 2006, 01:22:58 PM »

i'm going to split hairs, the constution does not say "State" with a captial S as in State of Ohio, it uses a small s, as in "state of freedom".

so when it says "free state" it means to live in freedom.

Timofei · « **Reply #47 on:** March 17, 2006, 04:17:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
...so when it says "free state" it means to live in freedom.

In your freedom:

In 2002, the most recent year for which data is available, nearly eight young people aged 19 and under were killed a day by a firearm in the United States. The scourge of gun violence frequently attacks the most helpless members of our society - our children. Consider these facts...
• In 2002, 1,830 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 828 committed suicide with guns, and 167 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 2,893 young people were killed by firearms in the U.S., one every three hours.
• Firearms are the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people 19 and under in the U.S.
• The rate of firearm death of under 14-years-old is nearly 12 times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 17, 2006, 04:17:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
You have a common misunderstanding of the meaning of "militia".

From the U.S. Code:

You're welcome.

Thats going to leave a mark lol.

Timmmaahhhh! Won't get it though.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 17, 2006, 04:20:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Timofei
In your freedom:

In 2002, the most recent year for which data is available, nearly eight young people aged 19 and under were killed a day by a firearm in the United States. The scourge of gun violence frequently attacks the most helpless members of our society - our children. Consider these facts...
• In 2002, 1,830 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 828 committed suicide with guns, and 167 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 2,893 young people were killed by firearms in the U.S., one every three hours.
• Firearms are the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people 19 and under in the U.S.
• The rate of firearm death of under 14-years-old is nearly 12 times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/

Trusting the bradybunch on facts is like trusting any politician to tell the truth. Foolishness.

There are already all kinds of common sense gun laws on the books that aim to solve those problems. None work because guns are not the problem.

Morpheus · « **Reply #50 on:** March 17, 2006, 05:06:57 PM »

Quote

There are already all kinds of common sense gun laws on the books that aim to solve those problems. None work because guns are not the problem.

[/SIZE]

Bingo.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #51 on:** March 17, 2006, 05:49:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Timofei
In your freedom:

In 2002, the most recent year for which data is available, nearly eight young people aged 19 and under were killed a day by a firearm in the United States. The scourge of gun violence frequently attacks the most helpless members of our society - our children. Consider these facts...
• In 2002, 1,830 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 828 committed suicide with guns, and 167 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 2,893 young people were killed by firearms in the U.S., one every three hours.
• Firearms are the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people 19 and under in the U.S.
• The rate of firearm death of under 14-years-old is nearly 12 times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/

"An armed society is a polite society."

Karaya

Blammo · « **Reply #52 on:** March 17, 2006, 05:58:04 PM »

1) Timmy, I asked you nicely to leave this thread alone. However, it appears that not only are you an ANTI-Gun Nut, but you are also rude. So...

2) If the intent of the second ammendment was, as you described it, then why didn't the authorities immediately round up every privately owned fire-arm in the nation after the ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Not only did they not do so, but we have over 230 years of court decisions and laws affirming the right of the individual to own firearms. I mean, it would seem that if their intent was how you indicated, then they immediately reversed themselves and have sustained that reversal. But the truth is, because they were separating themselves from a power that regularly denied the individual the right to bear arms, they understood exactly what they were saying:

"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

3) Just because you talk down to people (gun owners) like they are ignorant, hicks or completely uninformed does not make you right. All it really does is reveal the weakness of your arguement. You can make your case much better by just stating your position and supporting data. What makes it worse is that you did not even write the information in your last few posts yourself, but copied and pasted from anti-gun rhetoric....the internet equivalent of "What he said!"

4) If you really want to get into a statistics fight, I can certainly bring it. I mean, after all, if you are going to quote propoganda from the Brady group, you won't mind me citing facts from the NRA and other pro gun groups, will you? I really have no desire to do so, but if we want to go that route I, and others on this board, will be more than willing.

Look, this thread was not intended to be a pro/anti gun discussion. It was intended to get advice from people about what handgun they would recommend. If you would recommend none, why not just say so and be done? That would have been fine and then we could have just moved on. However, it is not enough for you to state your position, you have to try and force it upon an audience that has no interest in your view what-so-ever.

Why not start your own thread about how evil guns and gun owners are...oh wait, I know why...

BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO FREAKIN HEAR IT!

Masherbrum · « **Reply #53 on:** March 17, 2006, 06:00:43 PM »

What always puzzles me is this. Anti-Gun protesters inflict their BS on Law abiding Gun Owners as if we're criminals. However, they USUALLY are the one's with the "history".

Again, if you choose not to POSSESS A firearm, great. But keep your "thoughts" to yourself, you made you choice, now shut up and sit down.

Karaya

lazs2 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 17, 2006, 07:25:23 PM »

timmy.... you realize that most of those "children" you are being duped into getting hysterical about are in the 17-19 year old bracket and allmost all have criminal records?

You do realize that right? No? well... read some.... educate yourself... don't just read one anti gun site.

You do feel kind of stupid for believing them now don't you?

As for the second.... did you ever wonder why.... if the militia is just the army.... why they even bothered to have a second amendment? I mean... you have an amendment to protect the right of the army to have guns?

come on timmy... even you must be feeling stupid about now.. That's gotta sound dumb even to you..

But... you can read the federalist papers and other articles that were written at the time if you really care what they had meant.

It is also true that no law has ever been passed based on the fact that gun rights are not individual rights... Even the supreme court ruled that it is an individual right.

It is true that we are violating the constitution second amendment rights with our illegal laws but.... hopefully it will come up again with these new supreme court justices.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 17, 2006, 07:27:03 PM »

Oh yeah... the .357 sig seems like a pretty good idea. I just don't want to reload for it.

lazs

Morpheus · « **Reply #56 on:** March 17, 2006, 07:37:43 PM »

The thing is guys, we know we're right. Its our right to own, carry and use a firearm within the limits of the law. Which includes the right to deffend our lives and the lives of our loved ones. We know this is our right. Those like timmay chose to; for whatever reason, give up those rights. He beleives in his own mind that he was just and morally correct in doing so. Nothing you say, show him or do will sway him from his belief that guns are bad and guns are the problem. Basicly, you should just ignore him. Because he is one of a hundred million dead horses who can't be beat.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 17, 2006, 07:58:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus
The thing is guys, we know we're right. Its our right to own, carry and use a firearm within the limits of the law. Which includes the right to deffend our lives and the lives of our loved ones. We know this is our right. Those like timmay chose to; for whatever reason, give up those rights. He beleives in his own mind that he was just and morally correct in doing so. Nothing you say, show him or do will sway him from his belief that guns are bad and guns are the problem. Basicly, you should just ignore him. Because he is one of a hundred million dead horses who can't be beat.

Sounds like he should move to england and be a good little subject.

g00b · « **Reply #58 on:** March 17, 2006, 08:50:33 PM »

This will be my next gun purchase:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml

13+1 rounds of .45 acp goodness! Yum! I'm holding out for the 5 inch version, should be available in a few months.

g00b

wrag · « **Reply #59 on:** March 18, 2006, 01:51:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Timofei
In your freedom:

In 2002, the most recent year for which data is available, nearly eight young people aged 19 and under were killed a day by a firearm in the United States. The scourge of gun violence frequently attacks the most helpless members of our society - our children. Consider these facts...
• In 2002, 1,830 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 828 committed suicide with guns, and 167 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 2,893 young people were killed by firearms in the U.S., one every three hours.
• Firearms are the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people 19 and under in the U.S.
• The rate of firearm death of under 14-years-old is nearly 12 times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/

What the above does not tell you is how many of those are GANG members.

A very large number of those deaths among young people is just that.

They used to have one up there that claimed the killer and the dead knew each other. Sure GANG bangers KNOW who other GANG bangers are. They tried to say someone you knew was gonna kill you. MISLEADING!

The claim about being the 2nd leading cause of death after auto accidents is misleading. THE leading cause of death in this country among all ages is medical malpractice/mistake/misadventure. HOSPITALS and Doctors are very dangerous it seems. They get tired, over worked, rushed, etc. accidents happen.

So you wanna ban hospitals? Doctors? Medical staff and such personel?

You wanna ban automobiles?

PLEASE DO MORE RESEARCH! Look at both sides, and think about it before you make an opinion. It helps allot.

Guns have been banned in England, Canada, and Australia and the reports are the muder rate in those countries is steadily climbing.