Author Topic: Indy007  (Read 284 times)

Offline Schwein

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Indy007
« on: March 20, 2006, 03:10:54 PM »
You said:

That's quite the paradox Schwein. If you're headed to the gas chambers, you're either Jewish.. put there because you're Jewish.. or a political dissident. Lets assume for the moment you are Jewish. You're sparing the lives of civilians by nobly marching to a death in the gas chambers.

Exactly what civilians are you sparing? Not Jewish civilians. They're already on the train headed to put together more V-2s and meet death in slave labor factories, and those that are not, are collected in ghettos and shipped out for your noble death at a later date. So, obviously, you're not protecting the Jewish civillians at all.

That leaves German civillians to protect. Okay, fair enough, many, many were good people with nothing to do with the regime... but why do they deserve to be protected by your heroic march into the shower, and not the people being shipped to camps daily?

Pacifist? Good, whirrled peas for everybody. Hate guns? Fair enough, not everybody has to enjoy weapons. Deplore violence? GOOD! So do I! (expecting Boxing). Claiming that marching into the gas chamber and being executed is better than fighting to free your people, because civillians might get hurt... that's either very confused, or downright dishonest. Those people you refuse to fight and protect would already be getting gassed right alongside you.

Lastly, the entire concept of the "last stand" is actually a phenomenon of warfare since Napoleon & the total war concept. Early examples exist, but were extremely rare. Even since the 19th century it's very, very rare in practice. This glorious last stand you keep saying is stupid, really & truly is, stupid from a tactical standpoint. What you've totally ignored however is the insurgent activities of the French, Polish, and every other country with a resistance movement that did not stand and fight to the death. Instead, they took their rifles, and waged guerilla war, without ever leaving their home countries.

---

I think you misunderstood the premise of the argument. The premise was that of a British Jew living in London with the German army approaching. Would you fight a hopeless battle that would undoubtedly lead to the destruction of London with little or no German casualties? Would you flee, perhaps to America to fight another day? Or if fleeing wasn’t an alternative, would you give your self up to spare your fellow Londoners?

I believe I’ve made my opinion quite clear.

By your premise, if I was a German Jew I would have fled Germany with my family or died trying.

Offline Masherbrum

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Indy007
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 05:34:47 PM »
Give it up.

BTW, Warsaw was never declared safe for the Nazi's of all of the territory the had acquired.  You are the type of person who "looks out for myself first".   Great, yer selfish, now move along.

Karaya
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Offline Pooh21

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Indy007
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 05:37:33 PM »
in.

which of our :cool:  might you be anyway?
Bis endlich der Fiend am Boden liegt.
Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline lasersailor184

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Indy007
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 05:42:50 PM »
IN.


It was fun to watch Schwein lose.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Masherbrum

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Indy007
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 05:53:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
IN.


It was fun to watch Schwein lose.


and a second time.

Karaya

ps - IN
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Offline Schwein

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Indy007
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 05:58:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
BTW, Warsaw was never declared safe for the Nazi's of all of the territory the had acquired.  


I fail to see what that has got to do with anything.


Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
You are the type of person who "looks out for myself first".   Great, yer selfish, now move along.

Karaya


No, that’s the whole point. I’d willingly sacrifice myself to save others. You’re the kind of guy that would commit suicide by cop (or soldier), endangering innocent people just because you don’t have the balls to face your inevitable fate, or at least put a gun to your own head.

I’m not a pacifist btw. I’m a corporal in the territorial army, but I don’t believe in fighting for lost causes if it gets innocent people killed. No true soldier does.

Offline Masherbrum

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Indy007
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 06:04:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schwein
I fail to see what that has got to do with anything.




No, that’s the whole point. I’d willingly sacrifice myself to save others. You’re the kind of guy that would commit suicide by cop (or soldier), endangering innocent people just because you don’t have the balls to face your inevitable fate, or at least put a gun to your own head.

I’m not a pacifist btw. I’m a corporal in the territorial army, but I don’t believe in fighting for lost causes if it gets innocent people killed. No true soldier does.


If you would LEAVE your country if invaded (you've said this all along), rather than fight, you sir are SELFISH.  Just bend over, it won't hurt as much.

I brought up the Warsaw portion from the locked thread, to show you how little you know.   The Germans posted in the Ghetto were afraid, because they knew "from the rubble"(as you put it) a Polish occupant had a weapon.

Karaya

PS - I'm done with you, yer misinformed and a troll.  Move along to the kiddie pool.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Indy007
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 06:16:18 PM »
Mash, you've been around the circle twice with him.  What makes you think the third time will be any different?
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8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Masherbrum

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Indy007
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 06:18:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Mash, you've been around the circle twice with him.  What makes you think the third time will be any different?


true.  <> bud.  How's yer schoolin' going?  

Karaya
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http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline Schwein

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Indy007
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 06:21:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
If you would LEAVE your country if invaded (you've said this all along), rather than fight, you sir are SELFISH.  Just bend over, it won't hurt as much.


I suppose you would wait till the Gestapo found you and then have a shootout in the apartment. You might get a couple of them before they kill you and send your family to the showers.

That would be the stupid solution.

I would flee Germany with my family or die trying. If I make it I would join up with the allied armed forces in Britain or America … or didn’t you get that part of my post in the other thread?

Quote
Originally posted by Schwein
Like I said: People who fight and die for nothing are idiots.

How many Poles, Czechoslovakians, French, Danes, Norwegians, Belgians, Dutch etc. fled to Britain from a hopless fight in their homelands? Those men, especially the Poles and Czech helped save Britain and went on to help defeat Germany and free their own countries.

Your romantic last stand is as idiotic as it is pointless.


See?


Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I brought up the Warsaw portion from the locked thread, to show you how little you know.   The Germans posted in the Ghetto were afraid, because they knew "from the rubble"(as you put it) a Polish occupant had a weapon.


You’re getting a little ahead of the game here. I was talking about the siege of Warsaw in 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. Warsaw refused to surrender and got pummeled by the Luftwaffe until they finally did surrender. I doubt many German soldiers died, if any. They only fought boredom while the Luftwaffe slaughtered the citizenry of Warsaw with impunity.


Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
PS - I'm done with you, yer misinformed and a troll.  Move along to the kiddie pool.


Your petty insults are the hallmark of a sore loser.