Online plane database is up

[calan]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
Just wana point one thing out...

A plane cant have a different rating in accelleration and in climb rate...

The way I'm defining them (based on planes having different amounts of lift, drag, etc.) is:

Accelleration  - going from a low speed (stall speed) to top speed in level flight.

Climb Rate - going from low alt (100ft?) to a typical AH furball alt (7-12k).

So for example... a jeep could have great acceleration, but it won't climb for crap  


Calan

[calan]

Originally posted by TexMurphy

...

Plus that you should add roll rate, flaps rating and rudder rating as these are even MORE important then turn rate.

Tex,

Roll Rate is already there. What would the flaps and rudder ratings be based on?

Thanks for the input

Calan

[ChopSaw]

So this is a subjective rather than objective database?

[calan]

LOL Chop

I think it depends on who is rating the planes at any given time.  

[Scrap]

Calan,

I think the A6M5b is actually a better turner than the 2.... not by much, but enought to make the 5b elite and the 2 excellant in the low sp turn catagory.

[Scrap]

Also... there is no F4F in your list.

[calan]

Originally posted by Scrap
Calan,

I think the A6M5b is actually a better turner than the 2.... not by much, but enought to make the 5b elite and the 2 excellant in the low sp turn catagory.

Thanks Scrap...

Anyone want to second this?

[calan]

Originally posted by Scrap
Also... there is no F4F in your list.

It's there...   not sure why it doesn't show up... I'll look into it.

Tks

Calan

[JAWS2003]

In the climb rate please lock the Me-163 as the "elite", since there's nothing in the game that can come even remotely close to it.

In  "weapon power" the elite is the Me 262.

[TexMurphy]

Originally posted by calan
The way I'm defining them (based on planes having different amounts of lift, drag, etc.) is:

Accelleration  - going from a low speed (stall speed) to top speed in level flight.

Climb Rate - going from low alt (100ft?) to a typical AH furball alt (7-12k).

I will say it again for a plane the climbrate is directly proportional to the accelleration.

Accelleration == Climbrate

Planes that have different values on climbrate and accelleration have been rated by someone who doesnt have a clue.

The F6F is rated Accel 3 and Cr 4
The 190A8 is rated Accel 4 and Cr 3

This cant happen. A plane cant out accellerate one plane that outclimbs it and vise versa.

Tex

Edit: Here are a few discussions on the topic
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58498

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142818

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150423

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by calan
Thanks Scrap...

Anyone want to second this?

I think thats just Scrap.  The two are close enough that pilot skill will be the deciding factor most of the time, with a slight edge in turning going to the A6M2.  You start using the vertical at all, and the A6M5 will show its edge.  Snapshot ability goes to the A6M5 as well, better guns.  Scrap is a little above average as a pilot, probably gets more out of the A6M5 than someone else might.

[calan]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
I will say it again for a plane the climbrate is directly proportional to the accelleration.

Accelleration == Climbrate

...
 

I read the posts and understand that they are mathematically colinear, but as a newb running for my life in the MA (and I may be off base here) ...

Let's say I've got a bad guy on my six and I have two plans of action running through my head for whatever reason: run low and level, or try to gain alt on him.

If I'm running level, I'm thinking of "Acceleration" as a rating that will tell me how fast I can reach top speed.

I'f I'm climbing, I'm thinking of Climb Rate (should probably be renamed to "Climbing Ability") as a number that describes the plane's ability to rapidly get from the deck to the top of the furball (let's say 10k).

Since the engine performance and other factors will change as I gain alt, my "Climbing Ability" and "Acceleration" ratings aren't necessarily the same thing. My hypothetical plane may go from 0 to 400mph in a snap at 100ft alt, but dramatically lose performance as I start climbing through 3k due to engine problems at higher alts, etc.. So my acceleration rating is high, but the climbing ability isn't because of those last painful 7k.

Assuming my hangover isn't affecting my judgement too much , these two ratings seem to make sense to me. (They aren't being used in the instantaneous mathematical sense, but rather as a guideline for certain situations).

Regardless, I can avoid the controversy and combine them in the chart if I need too.  

Tks

Calan

[TexMurphy]

Calan

IF you can out accellerate me then you can out climb me, that is always true.

From HTs post in the first thread I posted

When we say Climb rate is always perportional to acceleration we meen that if you have an accelerations of 10 mph per sec and a climb rate of 5000 fps, at 160 mph.

Then if acceleration at 200 mph = 5 mph per sec the climb rate at 200 mph must be 2500.

Note you must hold a constant 200 during climb by either raising or lowering the nose.

And they will always be directly perportional.

One thing that you might be mixing into this is Zoom climb...

Zoom climb is basicly just energy retention. Trade alt for speed and then trade it back to alt the alt lost is the energy bled.

Still this doesnt change things. Climbrate is accelleration.

Tex

[g00b]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
I will say it again for a plane the climbrate is directly proportional to the accelleration.

Accelleration == Climbrate

Planes that have different values on climbrate and accelleration have been rated by someone who doesnt have a clue.

The F6F is rated Accel 3 and Cr 4
The 190A8 is rated Accel 4 and Cr 3

This cant happen. A plane cant out accellerate one plane that outclimbs it and vise versa.

Tex

Edit: Here are a few discussions on the topic
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58498

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142818

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150423

OK, 1st off, Great site Calan!

2nd. Let me state right away I know climbrate=accelleration. However, as an example as to why people percieve them to be different look at the climbrate charts of the LA5 and LA7. Almost identical max climbrates of 4500fpm, but the LA7 is almost 20 mph faster. So even though the climbrates are identical the LA7 is faster and has better acceleration. Simply put, in a drag race the LA7 will beat the LA5. In a time-to-climb contest, to say 5000 feet, they will be almost identical.

I think many percieve acceleration as a sort of combination of both the actual acceleration plus the top speed. I think it's a usefull data point.

[calan]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
Calan


Still this doesnt change things. Climbrate is accelleration.

Tex

I understand and agree... but as I stated, I'm not referring to instantaneous Climb Rate. I'm refering to the ability to climb from the deck to 10k over a period of time.

If my engine power decreases by 50% at 5k, then my actual climb rate (and actual acceleration) will also decrease in a colinear fassion. I'm not arguing this. But an "Acceleration at level flight" rating (call it AR), and a "Climbing ability (0 to 10k)" rating (call it CA) can definitely be different.

This is totally subjective, but may illustrate my point...

Plane 1:

At level flight, 1k:
Acceleration = climb rate = good
AR = my opinion = "Good"

From 0 to 10k:
Acceleration = climb rate = good below 5k,
Acceleration = climb rate = poor above 5k
CA  = my opinion = "Fair"


Plane 2:

At level flight, 1k:
Acceleration = climb rate = good
AR  = my opinion = "Good"

From 0 to 10k:
Acceleration = climb rate = good below 5k,
Acceleration = climb rate = excellent above 5k
CA  = my opinion = "Good"

Thanks for the input Tex...  I'm still working this thing out  

Calan