Author Topic: Headshake (Read 3258 times)

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #75 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:23:35 AM »

You are pretty much on there Hubs... I have shot thousands of rounds out of a Bradley Coax and if you could not hear you would not know from the vibrations that it was firing. The gunsight does not move around at all when it is separate from the gun and the gun is bolted to 70,000 pounds of mass. The 25 MM does impart some very light shake but not much.

I think some peoples beef is that it makes them feel ill when the screen shakes. This is a legit point and sounds like a resonable concession to limit or remove this feature in the interests of gameplay.

ChopSaw · « **Reply #76 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:35:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I haven't really noticed the headshake at all in airplanes.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Yeah, I looked at that. Looks like fighter aircraft were exempted from the "head shaking" update.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #77 on:** March 23, 2006, 11:36:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Yeah, I looked at that. Looks like fighter aircraft were exempted from the "head shaking" update.

Fighters have had headshake enabled for a long time already.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Hammy · « **Reply #78 on:** March 23, 2006, 11:39:03 AM »

wow, looks like zazen has to fly now!!!!!!!!
ZOMG rook fields will be vulched??????? say it aint so!!!!!!!

Zazen13 · « **Reply #79 on:** March 23, 2006, 01:37:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hammy
wow, looks like zazen has to fly now!!!!!!!!
ZOMG rook fields will be vulched??????? say it aint so!!!!!!!

Nah, Ostwind is still the same aiming wise. I can kill vulchers just as effectively. The only difference is now I have to have a barf bucket beside my desk and I dry heave in between kills from the nauseating 'blurry bowl of Jell-O' effect...I also keep a jumbo bottle of Excedrin handy for the inevitable migraine from looking at out of focus objects on my screen.

Zazen

Lye-El · « **Reply #80 on:** March 23, 2006, 02:02:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Fighters have had headshake enabled for a long time already.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Must not be much. Must be undermodeled. the 40mm on the hurri is the only thing I can think of that throws off the gunsight.

ChopSaw · « **Reply #81 on:** March 23, 2006, 02:52:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Fighters have had headshake enabled for a long time already.

-- Todd/Leviathn

I took a look at this offline. To test, I used a P51D zoomed all the way, lined up on a target and pulled trigger. Then I did the same with a B-24. Now I know some fighter advocates think they know what I'm going to say. After all, some know me as a staunch advocate for bombers and I did say the fighters seemed to be exempt from the shaking. Sorry to disappoint and really sorry I have to admit this, but I found the shake to be identical. If there's a difference between the two, I can't detect it. The reason we haven't been noticing it in fighter aircraft is that they rarely shoot zoomed all the way. Bomber and gv guns are commonly zoomed all the way, so we see it more.

This leaves the question of whether it is appropriate or not. Is it appropriate that the guns of a very large aircraft cause it to vibrate the same as those of a much lighter aircraft? The only consideration I've ever heard for mounting fixed as opposed to flexible guns is the fixed ones are much lighter and take up less room. Never heard anything about them vibrating more. Even if you take bombers out of the equation, how appropriate is it to be shaken so much by the coaxial gun on a multi ton Tiger. Or how appropriate is it for the Ostwind, essentially a Panzer, to be shaken as much as the Yak when firing the same cannon?

Regardless of how you feel about bomber guns shaking or not, there is one clear result. Bomber guns have had their effective range cut another 200. As a result even less skill is required to down a bomber than before. Fighters will still get shot down of course and that means they'll still whine about bomber guns being too good. I can't help but wonder what the next degradation of bomber capability will be.

Small wonder many of the fighter crowd are gloating. There certainly seems to be a bias at work here. Either that or this is has been a mistake HTC will fix. If that's the case, sooner would be better than later.

Bronk · « **Reply #82 on:** March 23, 2006, 02:59:45 PM »

Chopsaw you have 3 planes with multiple guns firing deal with it.

Bronk

ChopSaw · « **Reply #83 on:** March 23, 2006, 04:03:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
Chopsaw you have 3 planes with multiple guns firing deal with it.

This brings up a popular misconception. Many people believe that all three bombers are firing at the same target all the time. Not true. Firing from the lead bomber at d1.0, for instance, only the lead bomber is actually firing at the target. The drones on either side are firing to either side of the target, never coming close to it. Only at d0.500 do all three bombers aim their guns at the same point in space.

Also commonly not known or just plain ignored, the bomber guns have a shot gun like firing pattern instead of the sharp pattern thrown by fighter aircraft.

Anyone may test the above for themselves by using the .target command either offline or in the training arena.

Three planes with multiple guns is not what it might appear to be. It's certainly not as powerful as three fighter aircraft. In the hands of a single pilot who approaches a formation of bombers correctly the balance in power is always to the fighter. This balances out a bit if there are two people manning the guns, but that's not the usual situation.

Bronk · « **Reply #84 on:** March 23, 2006, 04:07:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Three planes with multiple guns is not what it might appear to be. It's certainly not as powerful as three fighter aircraft. In the hands of a single pilot who approaches a formation of bombers correctly the balance in power is always to the fighter. This balances out a bit if there are two people manning the guns, but that's not the usual situation.

Gee just as it was in ww2

Bronk

ChopSaw · « **Reply #85 on:** March 23, 2006, 04:19:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
Gee just as it was in ww2

Right. So when we hear fighter guys complaining the bomber guns are too good, what does that tell us? That bomber guns are too good? No. It tells us the fighter guy isn't doing it right.

Wolf14 · « **Reply #86 on:** March 23, 2006, 05:16:18 PM »

Messed around in an osti this morning and I didnt get sick at all. I can see how it could be issues for others.

Question I have though is that because of all the shaking and the way some of the colors move around, could that possibly be a trigger for someone with epilepsy to have an epileptic attack?

I dont know a whole lot about what triggers an attack, but I have been to alot of places that have strobes and rapid flashing lights warning people of possible epileptic attacks.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #87 on:** March 23, 2006, 07:37:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wolf14
but I have been to alot of places that have strobes and rapid flashing lights warning people of possible epileptic attacks.

This is due mostly to lawyers, and not epileptics.

I notice the repeated idea that the vehicle moves around, but it's really just the little meatbomb whose view shakes, isn't it? Also, while I think the coaxial and bow mounted guns would incite less shake, isn't the issue the amount of gun zoom used, and not necessarily the headshake animation itself? As an example, get in a plane, zoom completely in, and try to fly around like that. Personally, I can barely hit anything at max zoom, not because the shake effect sucks, but because controls don't take into effect the reduction in my field of view. I know this won't be a popular idea, but maybe it's time to rethink using max zoom all the time.

DamnedRen · « **Reply #88 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:42:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by richard_rd
Chill out Moil,

Just wanted to bust LTAR's balls a litttle bit for being traders

Do you happen to mean traitors? Like in evil countryman who switch sides?

Or Traders? As in I'll trade you my Micky Mantle baselball card for your original Stan Musial and Pete Rose cards...

MOIL · « **Reply #89 on:** March 24, 2006, 12:38:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
You are pretty much on there Hubs... I have shot thousands of rounds out of a Bradley Coax and if you could not hear you would not know from the vibrations that it was firing. The gunsight does not move around at all when it is separate from the gun and the gun is bolted to 70,000 pounds of mass. The 25 MM does impart some very light shake but not much.

I think some peoples beef is that it makes them feel ill when the screen shakes. This is a legit point and sounds like a resonable concession to limit or remove this feature in the interests of gameplay.

Thank You