Author Topic: Out of the cesspool time - taking a break  (Read 869 times)

funked

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Out of the cesspool time - taking a break
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2001, 05:27:00 PM »
Drug test for Karnak please!  

Offline Toad

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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2001, 05:57:00 PM »
No, I'm not.

You have pretty selectively framed your examples.

Where is the all inclusive monolithic conservative group that:

Insists one speak English at ALL times? School? Yes, I've seen that. Public offices, yes I've seen that. Seems to me a single language in these areas is a benefit to society. However, I'm labled a "conservative" and yet I have no real big concern in this area. I don't lose sleep over it either way.

Must pray in school? LOL, the argument I've seen is that those THAT WISH to pray be given a moment of silence to do that. Yet even THAT is not acceptable to the intolerant opposition. Isn't that a personal freedom to believe? I've yet to see any attempt to FORCE prayer on those who don't want to do so.

Must not have an abortion? I've seen groups that want to prevent legal abortion except in certain circumstances. They do exist. As well as groups that don't care if a person gets an abortion except that they think the government should be paying for it.
That's pretty much little old "conservative" me; I don't care what you do as long as it's legal. It's your business but I don't see why I should have to pay for it.

Must not use contraceptives? I'm guessing you're talking about the Catholics and the Pope. Otherwise, I haven't heard of a conservative group pushing this idea either. With the Catholics, it's religious belief/guidance from their leader. Not all of them follow it. But, by your description all Catholics would thus be *($%&*#(_@ conservatives, right?  

Banning books and video that doesn't meet "community standards"? Yes, I've seen attempts to do this as well. It's another thing little old conservative me doesn't agree with...IF...it's just a personal thing. For example, I wouldn't want to see "snuff porn" broadcast on TV or "kiddie porn" sold to minors in the local Waldenbooks. But if you're an adult what you do for entertainment in private sure isn't any business of mine. I'm a conservative? I guess so.

I differ with you most certainly. My beliefs are simple and straight forward. I've stated them in the previous posts.

I think most _true_ conservatives think that way.

I have no time for those that would forcepersonal beliefs on another person. No matter what side of the political spectrum they purportedly occupy.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2001, 07:53:00 AM »
Leonid, I personally think that a minority of each party can smear the party in general, but I know many liberals and conservatives that are great folks...I think its time we meet half way on some issues, and not let the talking heads and politicians make a dividing line between the parties.

I try and keep an open mind about everyones special interests, and have even voted for local Dems in the last two elections.
My biggest problem is 'more federal control'...I don't believe Big Brother is a very good authority over my life.  If there is going to be more control, I'd rather have it be state control, that way I can move to a state that has no such big brother control and not have to worry about it being a federal issue.

<S> Leonid, hope we get to meet someday!

Offline Kieren

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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2001, 11:10:00 AM »
Gotta respond (though I know I will be sorry):

You MUST speak english.
And how do we expect people to survive in our society if they don't even speak the language? Talk about putting up barriers! Standardized testing (required by universities for entry) are going to heavily favor english-speaking students. English is the language of most of the businesses in the country. English is accepted in about every city you go to. This does not seem to be an unreasonable demand.

You MUST pray in school.
This has never happened, unless you went to parochial schools which were founded by churches. Public schools have never demanded you pray. They used to allow the opportunity if you desired, but even that doesn't happen now. Further, I have never seen one conservative proposal to make prayer mandatory. As it is now, even Parent/Teacher organizations are not allowed to pray if they desire- that's right, even if it is their choice to do so.

You MUST NOT have an abortion.
There is a wide spectrum on this one. Some say absolutely none, some say to limit so that it is not as casual as a drive-through restaurant. Our friends on the other side like to call it "Pro-choice", and trivialize the whole event. I'd have to say that anytime you are ending a life you need to have a good reason, wouldn't you?

You MUST NOT use contraceptives.
This is perhaps my favorite one- set aside that not all religions ban contraceptives (mine sure doesn't), our friends on the other side have us passing out contraceptives in our high schools. All they need do now is provide a free period and a dark room. It's one thing to say "teens will have sex, no way to stop it", it is another thing altogether to encourage the growth of teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases in our very own schools. Might as well pass out liquor and dope too, because they won't stop doing that, either.    

Wonder why schools are doing so poorly, don't you?

You MUST NOT read things that are outside of the community's standards.
If you are talking about schools again, let me let you in on how public schools work. You have a Superintendent who assembles a staff. They coordinate the daily operations of the school and manage the long-range status as well. They recommend curriculum, but the school board must pass the recommendations given to them. If the community is conservative, you will see a conservative agenda. If you see liberal, liberal agenda. What is wrong with that? Education is a state concern, and local input is valuable too. What you seem to suggest is that we socialize education to make certain that it is applied exactly the same throughout the country. Fine, but that isn't the way it is currently legislated, so there is nothing wrong with a community setting its own standards. Being conservative or liberal has nothing to do with it.

You MUST NOT view things that are outside of the community's standards.
How about funding for works of art? Who pays for that? The taxpayers. Quick show of hands... who wants to see a canvas splashed with elephant dung? Who thinks that is art? Who is happy the price tag came out of their pocket? NEA (National Endowment of the Arts) has the responsibility, since it is funded by the American public, to be responsive to its "patrons". If we say we don't want to see another gallery of state-sponsored photographs of bungholes, I think we should have the right to say so, right?

FWIW, I think the concern is mostly about who is paying for the crap that is displayed more than the judgement of the people who would display such garbage. In the case of pornography, look at it all you like, just don't make it accessible to children.




[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 01-30-2001).]

Offline Nash

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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2001, 12:21:00 PM »
So the reply to Karnak is essentially:

"Not at all! Er, well, yah, BUT..."

Offline Kieren

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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2001, 02:11:00 PM »
No, the reply to Karnak is what I replied, not what you say I replied.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2001, 02:15:00 PM »
Oh..... ok...  sorry. So what yer REALLY saying is:

"Not at all! Er, well, yah, BUT..."

 


Offline leonid

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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2001, 03:01:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Leonid, I personally think that a minority of each party can smear the party in general, but I know many liberals and conservatives that are great folks...I think its time we meet half way on some issues, and not let the talking heads and politicians make a dividing line between the parties.

I try and keep an open mind about everyones special interests, and have even voted for local Dems in the last two elections.
My biggest problem is 'more federal control'...I don't believe Big Brother is a very good authority over my life.  If there is going to be more control, I'd rather have it be state control, that way I can move to a state that has no such big brother control and not have to worry about it being a federal issue.

<S> Leonid, hope we get to meet someday!

You know, Rip, I don't expect the country to be just the way I want it to be.  And it's not really what I want, either.  The only thing I want is respect for my opinions, and my vote.  Consider my views, trying to find a middle ground, and I'm happy, because even if it doesn't quite go my way, at least I know that those who aren't of my political persuasion are aware of me, and actively wish to respect my views.

And in turn, I will do everything in my power to consider and respect those who do not hold my opinion.

Mutual respect and consideration is all I'm really shooting for.

<S!>

[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 01-31-2001).]
ingame: Raz

Offline Kieren

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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2001, 07:16:00 AM »
I think I do a pretty fair job of being clear, without an interpreter.  

If a person makes a series of statements that are not only stereotypical, but one-dimensional, I think it is fair to clarify the situation. Further, my job relates directly to many of the misconceptions pushed forward by those statements. Schools receive enough criticism for things that are way beyond their control. At the very least I think those comments need to be qualified.

Sheesh, and I used to think Alex Trebek was the only snotty, know-it-all Canadian...