Author Topic: SU-27 AIrshow Crash AMAZING Video, Can Anyone Speak Russian. (Read 978 times)

Gunslinger · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2006, 08:49:48 AM »

WHy is it that russsian jets seem to fall out of the skys at air shows?

Reschke · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2006, 08:52:49 AM »

They may fall out of the sky regularly due to inadequate maintenance or complete lack of maintenance but I hear that their ejection seats are top notch.

Seagoon · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:31:15 AM »

Thanks for the article. From the text:

"The Defence Ministry has begun an inquiry and said it suspected that engine failure was to blame."

From the video, I didn't see any signs of flameout, it looked like a "controlled flight into ground" accident. The pilot executed the maneuver too low and no plane on earth would have had enough power to overcome wing loading and the rate of descent at that point.

Just checked via google and apparently the official cause was listed as entirely due to pilot error.

- SEAGOON

Boroda · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:42:05 AM »

Voiceover in Ukrainian says that main mistakes were different location of spectators in Zhitomir (their home base) and L'vov. First pilot asked his companion "where are the spectators?!". Second main mistake was that they trained in Zhitomir with much less fuel aboard.

IMHO it was airshow administration's fault - pilots didn't know where spectators will be and had to perform over the crowd. Anyway, pilots were accused and got sentenced

I already wrote here that after such an accident (and you didn't see more then 1/10th of the disaster) - they had one obvious solution to the situation

A 25 ton fighter literally ploughed into the ground in the middle of the crowd, leaving a deep trench

After that accident Russian authorities canceled demonstration flights on a show at Rzhevka near Leningrad.

Again: it was Ukrainian plane, not Russian. Just as that Tu-154 over Black sea that was shot down by Ukrainian SAM. It was an obvious lack of organisation and discipline

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:29:11 PM »

Hey, there is nothing wrong with the jet and it's maintenance.

They seems to be a lot of Russian jet crash because the pilots push the flight envelop really hard to wow the crowds. Plus they work with extremely tight safety margins.

Look at airshows in USA, the jets have to stay at least 500ft high, not go over 300 kts , and stay reasonably inside the flight envelop limitations. Thus they crash less.

xrtoronto · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:03:47 PM »

Rule #7

Masherbrum · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2006, 06:52:07 PM »

hmm.. Does the "Annual Russian Ejector Seat Board" know of this one?

Morpheus · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2006, 07:09:45 PM »

that's the one i was talking about. really nothing you want to watch though.

Mini D · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2006, 07:43:13 PM »

One of the thunderbirds did something similar at Mt Home AFB last year. There was something amis with his altimeter zeroing (set it for the wrong runway altitude or something like that) and he couldn't recover in time. There were no injuries on the ground because of it.

I was in the Air Force when the tragedy in Germany occured (1988) and airshows in the U.S. were completely stopped and re-evaluated. New rules and guidelines were implimented that prohibited maneuvers that put the crowds at risk. This included restricting where the crowd could be, where the planes could maneuver and what maneuvers they could do. The air shows got a little boring until they figured out that launching an F-15 and having it go verticle for 30,000 feet was about as impressive as it got... or having an F-18/F-16 fly by at 80mph barely hanging in the sky.

The thunderbird crash occured with a maneuver intended to parallel the audience in case of a problem. Many airshows set up a "mock runway" for the performers to align to if the real runway is to close to the crowds for safety sake. This is something that doesn't seem to have been adopted with the same zeal in Europe. Maybe someone could correct me on that... but I have seen footage of several shows where people were scattered all over the airport (both sides and ends of the runway) and I always think back to the incident in Germany.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:10:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
One of the thunderbirds did something similar at Mt Home AFB last year. There was something amis with his altimeter zeroing (set it for the wrong runway altitude or something like that) and he couldn't recover in time. There were no injuries on the ground because of it.

I was in the Air Force when the tragedy in Germany occured (1988) and airshows in the U.S. were completely stopped and re-evaluated. New rules and guidelines were implimented that prohibited maneuvers that put the crowds at risk. This included restricting where the crowd could be, where the planes could maneuver and what maneuvers they could do. The air shows got a little boring until they figured out that launching an F-15 and having it go verticle for 30,000 feet was about as impressive as it got... or having an F-18/F-16 fly by at 80mph barely hanging in the sky.

The thunderbird crash occured with a maneuver intended to parallel the audience in case of a problem. Many airshows set up a "mock runway" for the performers to align to if the real runway is to close to the crowds for safety sake. This is something that doesn't seem to have been adopted with the same zeal in Europe. Maybe someone could correct me on that... but I have seen footage of several shows where people were scattered all over the airport (both sides and ends of the runway) and I always think back to the incident in Germany.

I understand the differences in safety but it just seems that russain jets fall out of the sky all the time at air shows. It's uncanny. I can recall the recent F16 thunderbird (pilot error) an F117 (mait error) and that's about it as far as air shows go. It seems like once a month we were hearing about and Su or Mig falling out of the sky.

and yes the russain "K" series ejection seat is a superior design. I'm not sure if as of yet they have an automatic colision sequence (the us does not) but the envelope for survivability far surpases that of the US Aces series and the British Martin baker systems.

Debonair · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:37:41 PM »

Didn't they (the commies)arrest Bob hoover for dangerous flying at an airshow?

FiLtH · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:16:34 AM »

When did this happen?

Debonair · « **Reply #27 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:36:42 AM »

I dont remember, but it is in his book

Morpheus · « **Reply #28 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:49:15 AM »

Did any of you watch the military chan that was about the russian a/f. It was almost sad to see things in such disrepair over there. Air strips are falling apart, cracks, grass growing up and down... A shortage in just about anything you can think of. It did give me a greater respect for their planes though. The Mig29 is a monster. There is something about russian jets... Tho they will never come close to being as cool as a Tomcat.

Boroda · « **Reply #29 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:46:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus
Did any of you watch the military chan that was about the russian a/f. It was almost sad to see things in such disrepair over there. Air strips are falling apart, cracks, grass growing up and down... A shortage in just about anything you can think of. It did give me a greater respect for their planes though. The Mig29 is a monster. There is something about russian jets... Tho they will never come close to being as cool as a Tomcat.

Well, from what I have heard the situation in VVS got much better in last 5 years. They fly now as often as Americans. Nothing like 30 hours a year in early 90s.

Airstrips falling apart, grass etc - it happens, but Soviet planes are supposed to opearte from such airstrips, or even from grass fields. In 1993 when American F-15s visited training center in Lipetsk - they said they refuse to take off from such a dirty airstrip, so they had a Su-27 taking off before them to wipe concrete with exaust. Another problem for Americans was that they had problems with Russian fuel - IIRC they had engine failures on the way back.

Do you know when VVS decided to clean airfields from snow in winter? In 1940! In our climate concrete simply cracks, and we have to live with it. Even Tu-144 SST airliner was able to land on grass field, and did it at least once.

About airshow rules: in Russia on airshows there is at least 500m between the "zone" and public. On Moscow Airshow this distance is always secured by chains of internal corps soldiers. My first airshow in Kubinka, 1992 IIRC - the weather condidtions were so bad that I almost froze and got wet to the last thread in my clothes, clouds were so low that in Msk they covered half of the University building (180m tall on 80m hill), but pilots didn't skip a single maneuver.

In L'vov they didn't even inform pilots of where the public will be

Amateurs, still trying to pretend they have air force

Another thing about Russian aerobatic teams: they fly unmodified combat planes, I mean they may simply attach weapons to hardpoints and take off for combat.