put it to bed

[Brenjen]

Originally posted by soupcan
no hard feelings here Brenjen
and thank you for pointing out how my language could have been
offensive to others.

btw i like your weather idea:aok [/B]

                             No hard feelings here either        

[Bullethead]

soupcan said:

all those in favor of every map having a fighter town
and a tank town (each surrounded with 100k mountains and
no ords or troops)..........

Nay!

I oppose having TTs and FTs on maps because they go against the purpose of the MA (assuming it has one).  Basically, the MA is there for all the team effort stuff, even if that boils down to the usual porkdweeb/landgrab BS.  But that's why it supports many hundreds of players instead of just 64.

What happens when you have a TT/FT area is that one side or the other will gravitate there instead of fighting the war, with the result that it gets reset, or pushed back into such a hole that nobody not in FT/TT can have much fun.  Needless to say, this is highly annoying to those on the same side who are trying to prevent this, or actually want to win the war for a change.  And when the country gets reset, or its FT/TT bases finally get taken after it has also lost most of the map, those in FT/TT, who did nothing to prevent this themselves, get annoyed at those who were doing the MA thing for not succeeding.

I'd rather see FT/TT areas banished from the MA.  If you want to play that type of game, do it in IL2, CFS, or some such limited-capacity, non-persistent game.  Or beg HT to build you a separate arena for such stuff.  OTOH, if you're in the MA, you should do the MA thing.

====================================
EDIT:
NOTE:  this is NOT to say I'm a big fan on the MA thing.  When TOD/CT or whatever they're now calling it comes out, you'll find me there.  And if there was a separate FT/TT arena, maybe I'd be there instead of the MA.  But I don't like what I've seen in the MA as a result of many maps having FT/TT areas.

[E25280]

Originally posted by soupcan
all those in favor of every map having a fighter town
and a tank town (each surrounded with 100k mountains and
no ords or troops)..........

Seems a more logical solution would be to re-configure the DA or the backup MA so that it resembles the FT + TT that you guys love so much.  You are advocating a de-facto separate arena anyway, so why not take it to its logical conclusion?  Wanting "special arrangements" within the MA seems silly if you don't want any part of the MA's design to begin with.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Bullethead
soupcan said:
... because they go against the purpose of the MA (assuming it has one).  

Actually, BH... there isn't one purpose... this entire thread and the rest which are alike goes to show that people have different purpose, each for his/her own.  Each with different style of playing.

As for myself, I was an advocate for Fightertown in AirWarrior and we got it when we discussed it on Gamestorm.  The discussion here is no different from then.  

If you ask me, my real preference on a map structure is like that of AirWarrior Classic where only the bases in the middle was capturable.  We didn't have discussions like this then.  This line of discussion only came when all bases became capturable in AW2, because imho, the objective of the game suddenly shifted to annihilating the opponent by capturing all their bases.  This induces horde-like behavior because it is easier to attain the goal that way.  So, although my view is not restricted to AH, which came first, an arena with bases that are not capturable or an arena with bases that are all capturable?  I have been lobbying for a map like AW Classic and will continue to do so.  Of course, if this type of map is placed in the MA, it will change the nature of the "war" in your definition.

Now that I am going into history of gaming online for flight sims, you what I miss in AH and AW alike?  Deep penetration missions, where bombers will go high up to take out a strat target deep inside enemy territory.   Before, in AH, the HQ was not resuppliable.  It went down for two hours once it was taken out.  Similar thing was with the Spit factory in AW Classic, once the factory was destroyed, Spits were not available for 30mins or so.

Why am I bringing this up?  Because let's face it, We all like to get on each other's cases.   Whether that be out-manuvering the opponent in superior ACMs, or taking out an HQ (hence radar) or a Spit factory, we just want to hear the other guy whine and complain about what you have done.  It is the sure sign that you have proven something to yourself.  Well, saluting the opponent is more of the gentlemanly act in this case.

So, what do I do in TT?  I take a Jeep or M8 or T34 and just dash through the battlefield and take out as much opponent as much as possible.  I don't take a Tiger because I would be sitting in an armour comfortably without much fear of dying.  In FT, I would take an A6M2, which is slow and with relatively low ammo and would have difficulty getting out of a furball.

So, why don't I lobby for another arena?  Because I enjoy the company of the other players there and the choice of being able to furball or landgrab in a given arena.  Those are the only reasons.

Does any of this make sense to anybody?  I am not sure, but one thing that I know for sure is that this is the way I find the most fun.

I am going to stop here and get back to work before I spill more guts out...

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Bullethead
soupcan said:
 

Nay!

I oppose having TTs and FTs on maps because they go against the purpose of the MA (assuming it has one).  Basically, the MA is there for all the team effort stuff, even if that boils down to the usual porkdweeb/landgrab BS.  But that's why it supports many hundreds of players instead of just 64.

What happens when you have a TT/FT area is that one side or the other will gravitate there instead of fighting the war, with the result that it gets reset, or pushed back into such a hole that nobody not in FT/TT can have much fun.  Needless to say, this is highly annoying to those on the same side who are trying to prevent this, or actually want to win the war for a change.  And when the country gets reset, or its FT/TT bases finally get taken after it has also lost most of the map, those in FT/TT, who did nothing to prevent this themselves, get annoyed at those who were doing the MA thing for not succeeding.

I'd rather see FT/TT areas banished from the MA.  If you want to play that type of game, do it in IL2, CFS, or some such limited-capacity, non-persistent game.  Or beg HT to build you a separate arena for such stuff.  OTOH, if you're in the MA, you should do the MA thing.

====================================
EDIT:
NOTE:  this is NOT to say I'm a big fan on the MA thing.  When TOD/CT or whatever they're now calling it comes out, you'll find me there.  And if there was a separate FT/TT arena, maybe I'd be there instead of the MA.  But I don't like what I've seen in the MA as a result of many maps having FT/TT areas.

I oppose having TTs and FTs on maps because they go against the purpose of the MA (assuming it has one).

What is that purpose ? (assuming it has one).

the usual porkdweeb/landgrab BS is not the only team effort stuff that the MA has to offer ... there are other teaming opportunities beside landgrabbing.

What happens when you have a TT/FT area is that one side or the other will gravitate there instead of fighting the war, with the result that it gets reset, or pushed back into such a hole that nobody not in FT/TT can have much fun.

From what I have seen ... the amount of participants in FT/TT are pretty equal amongst all 3 countries.

So what if some gravitate there ... make believe that they aren't even logged on ... maybe that will take the edge off.

Please give more detail on how those not in FT/TT can't have much fun.

I have never heard from those who participate in FT/TT get pissed or berate those who "lost" the war ... I think you are streching it a little bit.

Or beg HT to build you a separate arena for such stuff.  OTOH, if you're in the MA, you should do the MA thing.

Please ... the current map is Trinity ... it has 155 fields ... 3 field set aside for TT ... that leave 152 fields left to do the landgrab thing. Sounds a bit selfish to me.

When TOD/CT or whatever they're now calling it comes out, you'll find me there.

It can't come soon enough for me either ... although I won't be there.

But I don't like what I've seen in the MA as a result of many maps having FT/TT areas.

Yeah ... it's a cryin' shame that grown men/women can't see and understand the design of FT/TT and leave it for what it was meant for ... instead it pulls the griefers from the depths of the MA sewer to do what they do best ... enjoy, at any cost, ruining someone elses idea of fun.

[hubsonfire]

I think anything that thoughtfully includes a variety of features meant to appeal to as many of HTC's customers as possible, while taking reasonable measures to prevent exploits and griefing, is a good thing.

Anyone who doesn't agree is obviously a griefer.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think anything that thoughtfully includes a variety of features meant to appeal to as many of HTC's customers as possible, while taking reasonable measures to prevent exploits and griefing, is a good thing.

Anyone who doesn't agree is obviously a griefer.

Yup, succinctly that is the whole point...The fact that cannot be denied is a significant portion do one thing and one thing only, grief, and for no other reason than to deprive others of fun.

AH is not unique in this respect, I remember the early days of FPS's and games like Ultima Online, griefing was a major problem, it completely ruined many otherwise great games, rendering them financially non-viable if the designers failed to re-act or were slow to do so. Griefers and griefing has a deleterious effect upon the morale and continuity of any gaming community, as is evidenced in AH in-game and on these forums. AH by its very open-endedness is especially vulnerable to griefers and griefing. There is, at this point, very few limitations or restrictions on the ability of relatively few griefers to ruin the gaming experience for the majority of other paying customers (removing fuel porking to 25% was the last major restriction on this type of behavior). It is the repsonsibility of the designers and to a lesser degree the community itself to curtail griefing or suffer the grim yet inevitable consequences...

Zazen

[Roscoroo]

one solution for FT .... (Air Start !!!  )   hint hint

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, succinctly that is the whole point...The fact that cannot be denied is a significant portion do one thing and one thing only, grief, and for no other reason than to deprive others of fun.

AH is not unique in this respect, I remember the early days of FPS and games like Ultima Online, griefing was a major problem, it completely ruined many otherwise great games, rendering them financially non-viable if the designers failed to re-act or were slow to do so. Griefers and griefing has a deleterious effect upon the morale and continuity of any gaming community, as is evidenced in-game and on these forums. AH by its very open-endedness is especially vulnerable to griefers and griefing. There is, at this point, very few limitations or restrictions on the ability of relatively few griefers to ruin the gaming experience for the majority of other paying customers. It is the repsonsibility of the designers and to a lesser degree the community itself to curtail griefing or suffer the grim but inevitable consequences...

Zazen

So, in short Zazen, we, as a community, just have to learn to play with each other nicely... anyway?  Right?

[lazs2]

I say yes...

There is no reason to say no unless you were one of those kids your mom had to hang pork chops on in order to get even the dogs to play with you.

No problem... I realize that there are such people.

Furball hit on what it would need tho... grass strips with no hangers... There is precident.. the alied vs axis arena has this so it is possible..

Those in a panic that no one will play with them if not forced to need to realize that this is not a seperate arena... it is maybe an arena within an arena but not a seperate arena.

There is a huge difference... in a FT or TT you could take off there and if you felt like you had your fill of it you could die or land or auger and then take off somewhere else on the map.... all seemlessly and all... using the same map and map tools.   Most would fly the FT for a while and then switch to an area on the rest of the map that looked good maybe... or.... vice versa

It would simply be about more choice and keeping people from logging or quitting from boredom.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[dedalos]

Force Fields.  The ultimate solution, muahahahahah

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by FDutchmn
So, in short Zazen, we, as a community, just have to learn to play with each other nicely... anyway?  Right?

Sorry?  Play nicely with each other?  What planet did you say you came from?

The purpose of games like AH is to inflict pain upon your opponent.  You can do this by besting him/her in ACM, tank tactics, taking his/her territory, etc.  Given that and human nature, you're going to find griefers.  They do it to cause pain and they'll continue to grief others as long as it is possible to do it.  It may seem perverse, but it is human nature.  That's the way it is on this planet.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Sorry?  Play nicely with each other?  What planet did you say you came from?

The purpose of games like AH is to inflict pain upon your opponent.  You can do this by besting him/her in ACM, tank tactics, taking his/her territory, etc.  Given that and human nature, you're going to find griefers.  They do it to cause pain and they'll continue to grief others as long as it is possible to do it.  It may seem perverse, but it is human nature.  That's the way it is on this planet.

ah, well, perhaps I didn't phrase it, right.  nevermind, it is not a matter to pursue.

[straffo]

Originally posted by soupcan
all those in favor of every map having a fighter town
and a tank town (each surrounded with 100k mountains and
no ords or troops)..........

say aye

aye!



then again what would happen to the BB?

NO FT
NO TT


Laissez faire !

[scot12b]

I like it would keep the fun poilce away and just let peeps have fun!. I hate going to TT or FT and seeing a base has been taken away from any side:cry