Avoiding the HO...

[TexMurphy]

Ok Im sick of reading HOwhines so here we go, its not hard.

1. Never take the HO shot your self
2. Always merge under the nose of the enemy. I mean under the nose not below the enemy. If he is inverted you will have to be above him.
3. There is no 3 always do 1+2 and you will never die to a HO unles YOU, yes YOU, scew up.

It is that simple. Its not harder then that. If you always do 1+2 then you wount die to a ho ever.

Tex

[bozon]

Just call the other guy a HOdweeb on channel 200. That should stop him.

Has anyone tried that?

Bozon

[SuperDud]

Yeah, he called me a Dud and I cried for about a hour after that:cry

[Revor]

most of the time ho's dont happen at the first merge. It happens when 2 turn into each other at the same time.

[Pooface]

Originally posted by SuperDud
Yeah, he called me a Dud and I cried for about a hour after that:cry

muppet

[Bogie603rd]

I do something else, I bank then turn left. So the enemy has to turn right and pull up slightly to get me. Then I make a sharp bank and turn right, now the enemy is too late to hit me. That is if you do this about 800 FT out.

[TexMurphy]

Bogie603rd

Two things.

First
In your case the enemy has to pull up inorder to get nose on you. you can pull a hell lot of more positiv G then you can pull negative.

If you go under him you force him to push negative Gs which means that he will redout if he tries to shoot you.

Second
You get a horrible merge from that kind of manouver. if the guy your fighting isnt a HOtard then you are as good as dead as you give up vertical spearation to a good pilot that will capilalize on it in seconds.

Very good thread on merges http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175388

Tex

[TinmanX]

You can usually gauge if an opponant is going to HO you or not. If I am H2H with a plane, I will try to 'advertise' the fact that I am not interested in a HO by rolling my plane 90 degrees and turning slightly in that direction. I've found a fellow non-HOer will carry on their original course also declaring their lack of interest in the HO.
If they alter their course to match mine and continue in for the HO, I will either nose down or pull up - to a 45 degree climb at a point where the opposing pilot will find it very difficult to find soloution - depending on distance from the enemy. It doesn't always work. We all get caught at somepoint.
That's when you mutter to yourself about ow some people will never learn.

I don't have a problem with HO in a decent, long-winded 1 Vs 1. It's when it comes on the 1st merge that I really get annoyed.

[Kuhn]

Originally posted by TinmanX
[.

I don't have a problem with HO in a decent, long-winded 1 Vs 1. It's when it comes on the 1st merge that I really get annoyed. [/B]

AMEN

[stantond]

In case anyone was wondering... separation is the goal during the merge.  Without separation, the HO can occur.  If you are actively pursuing separation, you won't be in a position to get shot.  After the merge a frontal shot can occur which is, imo, not a HO.  

However, I must admit if I am low on E.... I'll take the HO shot and then jinx.  I would feel bad about that, but sometimes it works!  It's usually a low percentage shot and not preferred, but as some real combat pilot once said "a kill is a kill".

So, no... it doesn't take two to HO.  Just one who is willing to try for the shot and another not actively maneuvering. If both pilots are going for separation the HO is not feasible, which may be wth Tex is talking about.


Regards,

Malta

[wrongwayric]

Spray and pray! Why bother, complaining about HO's? No one seems to want to dogfight in main anymore. Plus, to big of a gap in skill levels. You have a low level, an ok kind of sort of capable, no medium to speak of, then over kill skilled players that usually donn't seek others of their caliber, but prey on the weak. That kind of activity usually leads to guys remembering them and just saying FUG it and going for the HO as he knows he doesn't have a chance anyway. Think i'd be more upset by the lack of motivation to actually capture bases. All people seem to want to do is vultch. Half the players donn't even care about the reset anymore as they aren't on enough or at the time of reset to benefit by it, which is a problem that needs adressed the the AH staff. Map resets are a joke because most players are way bored by the time they happen. Lack of maps also a factor. Think HO whine is the least of the problems.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by wrongwayric
No one seems to want to dogfight in main anymore. Plus, to big of a gap in skill levels. You have a low level, an ok kind of sort of capable, no medium to speak of, then over kill skilled players that usually donn't seek others of their caliber, but prey on the weak. That kind of activity usually leads to guys remembering them and just saying FUG it and going for the HO as he knows he doesn't have a chance anyway. Think i'd be more upset by the lack of motivation to actually capture bases. All people seem to want to do is vultch. Half the players donn't even care about the reset anymore as they aren't on enough or at the time of reset to benefit by it, which is a problem that needs adressed the the AH staff. Map resets are a joke because most players are way bored by the time they happen. Lack of maps also a factor. Think HO whine is the least of the problems.

Wow, that was a LOT of generalization and I don't think much of it is true.

Look at these things you said...
1. NO ONE seems to want to Dogfight in M.A
Not true.   Many people are in there for no other reason.  Sure lot of guys will make a HO on the first pass.  That is true, but that is just survival in the M.A.  If you break the H.O. as described by TexM above, a dogfight will almost always break out.  Who cares if the guy WANTS to dogfight, you've just made him...

2.Think i'd be more upset by the lack of motivation to actually capture bases. All people seem to want to do is vultch.[/color]
I thought it was really interesting that these two comments came back to back in your post.  80% of the time, you are going to need to suppress the flights at a base you intend to capture.  You can do that by dropping hangers (which is always best avoided) or by 'vulching'.

Avoiding a vulch is even easier than avoiding an H.O.  Look out the window, and if it looks vulchy out there you depart from the next base back.  This is especially fruitful because upon arrival at the original base, you'll have some speed and altitude, making you the vulture's bane.

3. Half the players donn't even care about the reset[/color]
Right, but the other half DO care.  There will never be 100% strategic, or 100% furball players.  That is what sets AH apart.  Who cares if 50% want to furball... Go around them and get on with your captures.  Sure, they'll cry on 200, but they will find another base to play at.

4. they aren't on enough or at the time of reset to benefit by it, which is a problem that needs adressed the the AH staff. [/color]
If you're referring to the Perk bonus for the map, you don't need to be online to collect your winning perks, so the 'aren't on at the time' remark isn't valid...  And if they aren't on enough of the time, they probably didn't contribute to the win anyhow, and don't deserve a free bonus perk.  Just my personal opinion, but I don't think that is broken and I don't understand why you think it is.

[Ghosth]

Originally posted by Revor
most of the time ho's dont happen at the first merge. It happens when 2 turn into each other at the same time.

Thats not a HO revor, thats a forward quarter shot in the middle of a turn fight.

A HO is not just any shot where you get shot from the front.
And if it didn't happen on the fist merge chances are its not a HO.

A true HO is where you see him, he see's you, you point your noses at each other from 3k or farther out. And by 1k its playing chicken, guns blazing see which one is going to die.

One is for sure a fools game unless your at a major  disadvantage.
IE altitude, numbers, etc.

The other is a legitimate forward quarter shot in the middle of a fight.
Has NOTHING to do with the whole HO thing.

[Schatzi]

IMHO, a shot is a HO when both parties have a gun solution at the same time, not neccessarily from 3 k out. In a stallfight, the definition can get hard to differenciate, since gun solution can be close to "at the same time", include lag and it gets even more complicated.


I try to avoid HOs as much as i can, for the simple reason that its a 50/50 chance at dying/killing, and im a crappy shot.



Revor: You remember our HMk1 fight a few days ago. That was a HO, i couldve shot. I didnt, but thats my stupidity, not yours. Im sorry i complained about it - it was just frustrating for me to have such a good fight with you and then have it end the way you did. I know I cant expect others to live up to my expectations. I apologize. >S< for your great flying and the kill. You wouldve got me eventually anyway.



Coming in from 3k, guns blazing at 1k.... thats not a HO, thats a waste of ammo and a clear sign you should spend some quality time with a trainer or more seasoned player.


Firing HO shots in a close knife-fight... well, thats each and everyones own choice.


As for avoiding the HO..... get seperation. I usually have a mix of dive/roll/leadturn (like a barrelroll that ends in an immel) that seems to work good. If you know your facing a good shot, add a little rudder to throw off aim further. If i dont manage to avoid the HO its usually in a mult vs me engagement and/or i got too slow - in other words its MY fault.

No, i wouldnt say it takes two to HO, but it takes one to pull the trigger and the other failing to anticipate and avoid ahead of time.