Author Topic: Perked planes (Read 1407 times)

bozon · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2006, 12:54:27 PM »

Spit 16 is not a dweeb ride, nor is any other plane. The dweebery is in how you fly it. The problem in the MA is that we have 1945 planes and 1940 planes (the hangar queens). WWII was a long time for plane evolution so the performance and fighting-style gap is just to big.

For most planes we have the important models of their line, so putting a light perk on the likes of 190D, 109K4, F4u-4 or P51D will, at worst case, when you totaly run out of perks, force you to fly... those horrible 190A8, 109G14, F4u-d or P51B for a sortie or two.
Spit 16 is in practice a late 1943 plane. It is just that good and no way to justify perking it.

I'm very well aware that none of this will ever happen. Especially when we have TOD comming. I just like to imagine what if scenarios.

Bozon

Widewing · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2006, 05:36:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
I still say that if the F4U-4 has to be perked the P-51D should be, too.

Well, if the P-51D performed as well as the F4U-4, it would be perked. But, it doesn't and, naturally, isn't. Considering that the F4U-4 is the best prop driven fighter in the game, it's properly perked. If it were the F4U-4B, it would carry a higher price than the Tempest.

As it is, the P-51B is probably better than the P-51D...

My regards,

Widewing

Vudak · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2006, 11:18:01 PM »

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I think the 109 K4, La7, Spit 16 and P51 should be lightly perked.

- Blooz

They'll never perk the 51. You can only imagine how many players it must bring to this game.

bkbandit · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2006, 02:35:32 AM »

Alot of guys want to perk 51d, i guess cause its fast. bozon and saxman, why do u want to perk 51.

Saxman · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2006, 03:01:54 AM »

Performance.

While the 4-Hog is overall superior, (long been of the opinion that the F4U-4 was about the best piston-engine fighter of the war) the 51D is still near the top (probably second or third) of the American rides in capability. And maybe putting a bit of a perk on her would help thin out the numbers of those kamikaze porking Runstang dweebs who cut and run the first sign of an opponent at co-alt in a 1vs1. I'm about an average stick overall, maybe slightly towards the "above" side of the line, but I can't count how many times I've squared off with a 51 1v1 in a 1-Hog only to watch him nose down and run like hell. The perk may not eliminate ALL of 'em, and could encourage some of the remainder to play it more timid, but a perk cost would also REDUCE the number of chicken-sticks who don't want to get shot at that are upping a dragster that can pretty well run at will.

And I have to disagree with you about the -4's turning ability. I've always thought the C/D responded like total pigs in any kind of maneuvering (especially compared with the F4U-1). The 4-Hog feels more responsive by FAR than the Charlie and Delta.

Kuhn · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2006, 09:54:57 AM »

I would hate to see the La-7 perked. Im just figuring out how to turn fight in it and I get shot down to much. Perks would make it alot more tempting to run instead of fightin till the end. I love to intercept low buffs in the La-7, it gets you there fast and the cannons do a quick job of takin out engines!:D

bkbandit · « **Reply #21 on:** April 21, 2006, 09:57:54 AM »

Funny thing is alot of planes try to run from me when im in 51. They try to dive from me or they just try to wep there self out of trouble. Another thing that i find funny about certain fights is that for example, im fightin a zero, im in a mustang or corsair. I clearly cant turn fight him, but when i fight the zero "my way", b&z or just useing my speed to beat him the zero will get mad cause i dont want to turn fight him. The best ones is that when they try to jump u in 2 turn fighters and u get ur bellybutton out of there lookin for friendlys and they call u a ***** cause u dont want to fight him The mustang isnt the only plane that trys to dive away and run when they noe they blew the fight. I have fought 109s 190s and typos that do the same thing(the thing is that i can go after then in 51). Once i has chaseing this typo with a f4ud and all he did was run get ditance and try to go for a head on shot. I denied him the ho and he calls me a coward. I noe he has 4 cannons and i get 6 50s, im not dumb. Alot of guys get mad when u dont fly there fight. Thats like if u fought a zero in a f4u1 and went into sustained turn fight, u noe u not winning. Diving and getin ur bellybutton out when ur introuble is one of the options in the 51. Just like if ur in a zero, u noe u cant chase anybody or dive after nobody but u could just go into tight circles. Its preetyy hard to dive on a target that swirlling around now stop, i cant complain cause i cant except him to just let me kill him, his game is the turn and thats wat he wants. There aint really nothin u could do, if u cant catch him fly a typo, but then u cant turn like the corsair and then u might be the one diveing away. The fact that i could just get away when im in trouble is the main reason people complain about it but they dont fly fast fighters, they dont want to give up there turning but they want to take away my speed. Im pretty sure that the majority that make a living off diveing will just get into a typo or 190, then people will want to perk that.

Widewing · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2006, 12:13:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman

And I have to disagree with you about the -4's turning ability. I've always thought the C/D responded like total pigs in any kind of maneuvering (especially compared with the F4U-1). The 4-Hog feels more responsive by FAR than the Charlie and Delta.

The P-51D isn't going to get perked, no chance whatsoever. So, if I were you, I'd stop wringing my hands over it and concentrate on things I can change.

As to the various Hogs, My experience leads me to draw several conclusions.

F4U-1... Turns flat turns very well, but rather weak in the vertical.
F4U-1C... A bit sluggish compared to the others and worst turning of the group.
F4U-1D... Turns about as well as the F4U-1, but is markedly better in the vertical. It's the best of the -1 series overall.
F4U-4... Similar turn to the -1D, but vastly superior in vertical. Much greater power allows it to sustain combat maneuvers without excessive E loss. Thus, it feels more responsive.

Given equal pilots, there is no better fighter in the game than the F4U-4, be it a high-speed engagement or stall-fighting down in the weeds.

When engaging a fast moving P-51 with a Hog, you need to get the other guy to commit to a fight. If he thinks you're gonna be trouble, the typical P-51 driver in the MA is going to bug out. So, you need to provide incentive for him to start burning off E. Suck him in, reverse him and kill him. P-51s have two chances against Hogs in a maneuver fight...Slim and none.

See this thread for some interesting F4U films.

By the way, there appears to be a fuel-burn bug with the F4U-4. It burns considerably more fuel in MIL power than in Combat power....

My regards,

Widewing

Furball · « **Reply #23 on:** April 21, 2006, 12:29:57 PM »

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Originally posted by Karnak
Because new players in Spitfire Mk Is enjoy being blasted by Spitfire Mk XVIs while clueless as to any defense so much that they'll subscribe just to experience it.

i dont know... in wwiionline you cant get the good stuff until you get rank, noobs spend ages running around as riflemen with no binoculars, driving the worst tanks, worst aircraft, until they gain rank for the good stuff.

that doesn't put people off there, im sure they have many more subscribers than AH.

Furball · « **Reply #24 on:** April 21, 2006, 12:30:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
By the way, there appears to be a fuel-burn bug with the F4U-4. It burns considerably more fuel in MIL power than in Combat power....

My regards,

Widewing

water injection?

same thing in p47

Widewing · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2006, 12:51:50 PM »

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Originally posted by Furball
water injection?

same thing in p47

I was thinking the same thing... Water displacing fuel, thereby reducing fuel consumption...

I checked the F4U-1's Specific Engine Flight Chart, and you can see that this is indeed the case.

Note that the AH2 P-47D-40 has water injection and its fuel consumption goes up with WEP, not down like in the F4U-4 and P-47N. However, the F4U-1D, also with water injection, is different in that there is no change in fuel flow rate when engaging WEP (and the chart shows it should go down in WEP).

So, we have three different fuel flow models between the F4U-4, P-47N, P-47D-40 and F4U-1D with only the first two being correct.

Plane Engine
P-47N R2800-73 or -77
P-47D-40 R2800-59
F4U-1D R2800-8W
F4U-4 R2800-18W

All water injected...

My regards,

Widewing

LePaul · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2006, 08:07:13 PM »

Perk the cannon birds! The Spit16 seems to be the new La7, it seems to have no weaknesses....climb, roll, guns, power, etc

bozon · « **Reply #27 on:** April 22, 2006, 01:54:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
Alot of guys want to perk 51d, i guess cause its fast. bozon and saxman, why do u want to perk 51.

I'm against perking planes by performance per plane, save the jets. Also, I'm not for perking the p51D specificaly, I'm for (lightly) perking all late war rides which includes the P51D.

Not worth discussing since it's been posted may times before and will never happen (try a search on the forums).

Bozon