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Author Topic: Cockpit bars in 109K4  (Read 1530 times)

Offline 2bighorn

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2006, 07:06:57 AM »
109 bars are OK. It's well known that axis pilots are pinheads and thick bars are optical illusion when compared to their heads.
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Offline Charge

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2006, 07:17:36 AM »
"Just because you think they are too thick doesnt neccessarily make them an "obvious error"."

I agree, but if they are shown to be (slightly) incorrect  I find no obvious reason to leave them not corrected.

You now the armoured glass widens the view quite a bit as is obvious from that side view.

-C+
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Offline Schatzi

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 07:25:23 AM »
Im pretty sure HT is open to hard facts and backed up data.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 07:35:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
You now the armoured glass widens the view quite a bit as is obvious from that side view.
It's just that pilots don't sit outside on the wings. From the cockpit, refraction is not as big. Due to the (close) to 90 degree angle between eyes and armored glass, sidebars wouldn't appeared thinner, top bar perhaps would (since windshield is angled in vertical plane).

EDIT:
You'd really have to lean your head way forward and either side to take an advantage of refraction.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 07:37:58 AM by 2bighorn »
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Offline Charge

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 08:11:34 AM »
You can see the pictures in the other thread taken from pilos seat in real 109 and HTC 109. The view should be slightly wider even from 0 deg angle, and if you lean forward the effect is stronger.

Eg. the windshield in P51 is made very well and its chamfered armour glass is made very well to represent the RL affect of armoured glass. It should be done to 109, too, although its armour glass is not chamfered the same way, so it does not have quite as much benefit of the optical features of thich glass as P51.

Actually the present model looks as if there was no armoured glass at all and the outer part of windshield framing obstructs the view which it does not do in case of actual armour glass.

I was lucky to find a piece of 55mm thick perspex glass and experiment how much effect the glass actually has. IIRC at 45 degrees view to glass the 90 deg cut side should be optically about 27,5mm wide but it actualy looks only 18mm wide and that is the widest view at the side! So you actually CAN look behind a corner with thick armour glass.

-C+

"Im pretty sure HT is open to hard facts and backed up data."

Of course. I wouldn't imagine they would discard any data presented to them in form of actual pictures of actual a/c in question.

Edit. "You'd really have to lean your head way forward and either side to take an advantage of refraction."

No you don't. It works right from 0 deg up to 180 deg -if you can put your eye that close to the glass... ;)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 08:16:17 AM by Charge »
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Offline Knegel

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2006, 12:36:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by uvwpvW
I highly doubt that.

the REAL 109G-6 cockpit:



Hi,

just before some weeks i did sit in a 109G2, the bars are very big!!
I think the HA viewsystem provide very credible 109 and 190 inside cockpit view possibilitys.

You need to see it in combination with a pilotīs head!







Dont forget, from the default viewposition in the AH 109 cockpits, you look with a 45° angle to the frames,  you see the frame of the movabel part of the canophy and static part linked to each other. Shift the head toward the window  and you will see how thin the frames are.

The AH viewsystem, right adjusted and used, provide a perfect clear view out of the 109 cokcpits in all situations!

Greetings, Knegel
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 01:09:41 PM by Knegel »
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Offline uvwpvW

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2006, 02:33:02 PM »
That's a G-2. The G-2 and early G-6 had heavy cockpit framing. Pilots complained and later G-6, G-14, G-10 and K-4 had the Erla-Haube and Galland-Kopfpanzer which improved visibility greatly. The 109G-6 which I posted pictures of above has the correct framing and armor. The AHII G-14 and K-4 models have this framing and armor.





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Offline Karnak

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2006, 03:44:52 PM »
The front section doesn't appear to have been changed at all.  Very large improvement otherwise.
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Offline Glasses

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2006, 05:29:38 PM »
No it's well known the Luftpilots liked to look through toilet rolls as it is portrayed in AH.

How about next version they just paint the windshield dark so you cannot see anything outside.
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Offline Charge

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2006, 05:52:58 AM »
I don't know which part you guys skipped, but it was not about how thick the frames are, but how much the aroured glass lets you see "through" them.

*sigh

-C+
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Offline Urchin

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2006, 08:53:52 PM »
Why are the bars in the G6,G14, and K4 so much thicker than the F4?  

I took screenshots to compare, they are noticably thicker in the front.

The top cockpit bar looks to be about 50% thicker than the F4s, the side bats are more than twice as thick.  By the side bars I mean the side bars in front, they make the sides of the front "square" you look out, and curve up to meet the bar going across the top (I assume that one is the hatch, or whatever the hell its called).

The side bars are very much thicker, it is really easy to see the difference.
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Offline wrag

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2006, 02:36:47 AM »
I USED to fly mainly 109's.

Now IMHO the 109's are porked!

The F no longer has gonds.

The cockpit bars are ridicules in all the other models and the k 30mm sux.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2006, 07:20:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
I don't know which part you guys skipped, but it was not about how thick the frames are, but how much the aroured glass lets you see "through" them.
Has anybody calculated amount of refraction yet? If it adds up more than an inch, then HTC should consider revision, if it's any less, then it's not really worth it, IMHO.
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Offline Pooface

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2006, 08:32:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Glasses
No it's well known the Luftpilots liked to look through toilet rolls as it is portrayed in AH.

How about next version they just paint the windshield dark so you cannot see anything outside.




:rolleyes:









gawd, what dont you understand about 'stop whining'?
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Offline mandingo

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Cockpit bars in 109K4
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2006, 08:38:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Why are the bars in the G6,G14, and K4 so much thicker than the F4?  

I took screenshots to compare, they are noticably thicker in the front.

The top cockpit bar looks to be about 50% thicker than the F4s, the side bats are more than twice as thick.  By the side bars I mean the side bars in front, they make the sides of the front "square" you look out, and curve up to meet the bar going across the top (I assume that one is the hatch, or whatever the hell its called).


This is what I don't undertand either, since both have the same amount of armor in the front windshield.  Look at this thread, it provides comparisons of which you speak

http://hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165607&highlight=cockpit+109k4
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