Author Topic: Guppy, need a B17G (Read 782 times)

Lord ReDhAwK · « **on:** April 23, 2006, 02:39:27 PM »

Salute Ur Guppyness,

Any chance you have a B17 other than an American one? I would like to make one a little different than normal

Template is made. Green for right now but I will change to suit. I appreciate your time sir.

ReDhAwK

Guppy35 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:15:56 AM »

There just isn't that much to choose from. 85 B17Gs went to the RAF. From a couple different sources:

"Eighty-five USAAF B-17Gs were transferred to the Royal Air Force as the Fortress III. The first 30 of these planes were built by Boeing, and the remainder were built by Lockheed-Vega. RAF serials were HB 761/790 for the Boeing-built models and HB791/793, 795, 796, 799/803, 805, 815/820, KH998, KH999, and KJ100/127, KL830/837 for the Vega-built models. However, HB794,797,798,804, 806/814 were diverted to the USAAF before they could be delivered to the RAF.

Three of these Fortress IIIs (HB786, HB791, and HB792) were operated by RAF Coastal Command. They all served with 220 Squadron in the Azores and were subsequently allocated to two met squadrons (HB786 to 521 Sqdn and HB791 and HB792 to 251 Sqdn). They usually carried twelve 400-pound S.C.I. Bombs or sixteen 250-pound depth charges. They had the cheek-mounted machine guns removed, and radar was fitted in place of the ball turret.

In February 1944, the first Fortress IIIs were assigned to No. 214 Squadron of Bomber Command based at Sculthorpe. These operated with with No. 100 group on special electronics countermeasures missions to confuse and jam enemy radar. With No. 233 Squadron, the first Fortress III unit of Bomber Command, they took part in clandestine operations until the unit was disbanded in July of 1945. Fortress IIIs also took part in mass night attacks, being employed as decoys to confuse enemy night fighters and to drop "window".

Your best bet is to try and track a photo of one of those 85. No luck here so far. Otherwise I have this B17E profile that is Coastal Command. Maybe HTC and company would let you go with something like this just to do something different on the B17?

I'll keep looking

Guppy35 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:22:39 AM »

Go here and check the photo.

http://214squadron.atspace.com/id4.htm

Based on the serial, that's a B17G HB817. Youve got the serial, red code letters, squadron and crew and enough of the photo to show you it's in standard RAF night camo.

THAT would be an interesting look on a B17G

Kev367th · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:24:38 AM »

Found one pic, 214 Sqn, looks like BU-W, maybe Dan can come up with a ser no.-

Maybe you could email the RAF Museum for more info?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:27:49 AM »

Great pic. That's 2 in RAF camo. The one above is BU-B of the same squadron. Kev's photo gives more info on the overal camo and squadron markings.

Sure looks doable.

Kev367th · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:34:32 AM »

Would 'assume' the camo is standard multi engined -

Should be able to work it out from this-

and the upper lower demarcation from this -

These are from the Air Ministries "Air Publication 2656A".

Colors depends on if day or night bomber -
Agian from "Air Publication 2656A"

Day bombers (except Mosquito)

17. All day bombers except those of the Mosquito type should be camouflaged as follows. The scheme for the Mosquito is detailed in para. 18

(i) UPPER SURFACES

(a) UNSHADED AREAS.- Dark green.

(b) SHADED AREAS.- Dark earth

(ii) UNDER SURFACES.- Sky.

(iii) BOUNDARY BETWEEN UPPER AND UNDER SURFACES.- Pattern No. 1.

(iv) SPINNERS.-Medium sea grey. (.

Night bombers and gliders and tugs

19. All night bombers, and gliders other than glider trainers, should be camouflaged as follows. The scheme for glider trainers is detailed in para. 41.

(i) UPPER SURFACES

(a) UNSHADED.- Dark green.

(b) SHADED AREAS.- Dark earth.

(ii) UNDER SURFACES.- Night.

(iii) BOUNDARY BETWEEN UPPER AND UNDER SURFACES.- Pattern No. 2.

(iv) SPINNERS.-Dark green or dark earth

Codes (RAF Red)-
BK117 - BU-U
HB817 - BU-B
?????? - BU-W

All I can come up with.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:39:49 AM »

Well I guess we got that one solved. Nice work Kev

Kev367th · « **Reply #7 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:50:30 AM »

Guess so

.

I'd go with -
Dark Earth, Dark Green uppers.
Black (NIVO) lowers. (boundary as in pattern number 2 (lower one), like night-time lancs).
Red sqn codes/serial number.

One interesting point -

(iv) SPINNERS.-Dark green or dark earth

All lancs I've seen had black spinner, wierd huh?

Kev367th · « **Reply #8 on:** April 24, 2006, 01:07:07 AM »

Poss something along these lines, going by the pic I posted and the regulations -

Use one of the known codes / ser no

BK117 - BU-U
HB817 - BU-B

Lord ReDhAwK · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2006, 05:11:07 PM »

Salute Gents,

Absolutely amazing stuff, and quick to boot. I just got in from work and e-mail was the first thing I checked. I knew there had to be some variety out there

Sincere thank you's to the both of you. This is definately the direction I want to do. I will post updates.

ReDhAwK

Kev367th · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2006, 08:44:27 PM »

YW

Extra tidbit -
No underwing roundels.
But the usual fuselage / upperwing / fin markings.

Maybe Dan can comment here -
My pic: Looks like type A on the fuselage (could be a trick of the pic/light), but with a later fin flash.

Personally I'd use a type C with the later fin flash. Think its just a trick of the light.

Lord ReDhAwK · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2006, 09:48:44 PM »

rgr Kev. I decided to go with HB817. Working on the paint scheme right now. You quoted NIVO as the lower but it seemed a shade of grey rather than the darker colors associated with the lancaster (both in game and in my books.) I opted for a touch darker than night fighter black. It is a touch off-black of the pure black panel lines (just as a reference.) In the skin viewer it is a bit too "shiney" though. Do you have a material list I can reference to tone that down a bit?

Guppy, I read through the entire website you cited. Great Stuff! Found some other good reference pictures for placement of lettering and such. This is turning out to be a fun project (moreso than just making another US skin IMO.)

Regards,
ReDhAwK

Guppy35 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2006, 11:20:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
YW

Extra tidbit -
No underwing roundels.
But the usual fuselage / upperwing / fin markings.

Maybe Dan can comment here -
My pic: Looks like type A on the fuselage (could be a trick of the pic/light), but with a later fin flash.

Personally I'd use a type C with the later fin flash. Think its just a trick of the light.

Agreed on the later roundel Kev. Think it's the photo. No way it would have the earlier roundel.

Should be a fun one to see up Redhawk

Kev367th · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2006, 11:56:52 PM »

Use the materials file from one of the already remodelled planes with a flat finish -

Any of the Spits material files should do it.
Just replace the B17 "material" file with a Spit one.

Or if you just want to edit the current 'material' file in your new skin folder-
Replace everything with these lines between the dashes.

---------------------------------------------

0.259,0.259,0.259,Ambient
0.659,0.659,0.659,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.122,0.122,0.122,Specular
15.000,Power

----------------------------------------------

These are the entries for the Spit IX default (dull) finish.

As you've probably guessed the shinyness or flatness of the skin depends on these entries.