Author Topic: F-22 Pilot trapped for 5 hours (Read 1007 times)

Gunslinger · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:01:17 PM »

Just to set a few records strait.

1. The seat can and WILL punch through the canopy apon malfunction. (note the pilot has a good chance of surviving this as it's designed to do this in a contingency situation BUT would probably be injured)
2. The rocket moter and thruster that unlocks and removes the canopy would have gotten the job done reguardless of it's mechanical condition...TRUST ME
3. Jettisoning the canopy will not cause the seat to fire BUT there would be several more expensive components to replace IF it didn't burn the crap out of the canopy sill and outter skin of the a/c. If that were to happen the damage cost would more than likely triple from $180k and that's low balling it.

5 hours for a pilot is nothing. I'm more concerned about the 100's OF HOURS of that the mait crews are going to pull to get all of that FO out of the cockpit. The seat will have to be pulled and completly taken apart and cleaned as well as all the consoles and kick panels.

Having worked this system, I cannot come close to speculating what happened. There is a motor system and a manual drive back up. Unless the thing was WAAAAAYYYY out of rig it should work as advertised.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:04:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball

This would never happen to a Eurofighter Typhoon or Rafale or Sukhoi. Poor American worksmanship and poor rushed design is to blame i think... Cheap Raptors.

Yeah but that F-22 can shoot those planes down just sitting on the runway.

Damn fiats of the sky..

LePaul · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:08:37 PM »

Yea the pilot sitting there aint the thing I was wondering about...chainsaws have oil...and that crap most certainly got sprayed all over the displays, hud and who knows what, and the plastic debris.

That guy should pack a cordless Dremel for the future

Ripsnort · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:09:32 PM »

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Originally posted by Furball

This would never happen to a Eurofighter Typhoon or Rafale or Sukhoi. Poor American worksmanship and poor rushed design is to blame i think... Cheap Raptors.

The canopy mechanism is subcontracted out by Lockheed to Mitisubishi Rayon Co. LTD,, dork!

http://fas.org/man/gao/gao95145.htm

Mark Luper · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:54:36 PM »

One thing to remember also, the whole canopy, from my understanding, is the $182k. What they cut shouldn't cost more than about $30k to $40k. The F-16's transparancy, depending on model, runs between $15k and $30k.

Now the man-hours involved in cleaning it up and the collateral damage done after the fact may shoot the price up some.

The motor used to open and close the canopy isn't designed to be cycled as many time as they did without a breather. You would burn it up. I think that is what probably happened. They burnt the motor up trying to troubleshoot the system and it locked everything up.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #20 on:** April 26, 2006, 06:29:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mark Luper
One thing to remember also, the whole canopy, from my understanding, is the $182k. What they cut shouldn't cost more than about $30k to $40k. The F-16's transparancy, depending on model, runs between $15k and $30k.

Now the man-hours involved in cleaning it up and the collateral damage done after the fact may shoot the price up some.

The motor used to open and close the canopy isn't designed to be cycled as many time as they did without a breather. You would burn it up. I think that is what probably happened. They burnt the motor up trying to troubleshoot the system and it locked everything up.

the 22 trannies are a little more costly and the price you listed for the F16 trannies (Front and single) are kinda low as well. The biggest problem isn't really the price though, its the supply system. All the new ones being made are being placed on the newly made jets. I've never changed a trans on a 22 but have done MANY on 16s and they are not fun at all. Also, I'm not entirely sure that you can just replace the trans on a 22 as I've never done one.

I've heard of burning up the motor many times on 16s but even then the manual drive usually still works. I know the manual drive on the 22 is HORRIBLE and would never want to open one that way.

Mark Luper · « **Reply #21 on:** April 27, 2006, 05:06:34 PM »

Gunslinger,

I'm not at all that familiar with the 22 canopy. We do use the manual mode on the 16 a lot when closing the crew station at the end of the day or after a FA (final acceptance). The prices on the 16 transparancy is about that. I have rejected a few and looking up the manufacturer in our system also shows the price on the particular transparancy in question. It has been a while since I looked one up though.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2006, 06:07:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mark Luper
Gunslinger,

I'm not at all that familiar with the 22 canopy. We do use the manual mode on the 16 a lot when closing the crew station at the end of the day or after a FA (final acceptance). The prices on the 16 transparancy is about that. I have rejected a few and looking up the manufacturer in our system also shows the price on the particular transparancy in question. It has been a while since I looked one up though.

The manual drive on the 22 is a nightmare. IIRC it takes about a 1000 revolutions to move just a 1/4 inch. The last test I saw it took engineers about 4 makita batteries on their drills just to open it up (imagine an airman with a speed handle). The other problem is it is LOOOONG. It goes all the way to the front landing gear bay from the cockpit. The system itself is similar to the 15 or the A10 as in it translates aft to unlock and then up. I agree with you that they probably burned up the drive motor but it shouldnt have locked the system up completly....I could be wrong. I wrote a buddy of mine at langly to find out what happend.

Golfer · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2006, 06:39:32 PM »

GS are the cockpits on -16s and the -22 pressurized? Any frontline fighter for that matter.

Looking at the canopy and cockpit are when a jet is parked in a museum (the first 22 and a 16 at Wright Patt) it doesn't seem very substantial. To my very much untrained eye it looks like the "tower shaft" for lack of a better word simply pulls it down and holds it. Does it have mechanical locks as well or is the force of the actuator the only thing that pushes and holds it up/down?

Gunslinger · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2006, 07:52:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Golfer
GS are the cockpits on -16s and the -22 pressurized? Any frontline fighter for that matter.

Looking at the canopy and cockpit are when a jet is parked in a museum (the first 22 and a 16 at Wright Patt) it doesn't seem very substantial. To my very much untrained eye it looks like the "tower shaft" for lack of a better word simply pulls it down and holds it. Does it have mechanical locks as well or is the force of the actuator the only thing that pushes and holds it up/down?

Speaking of the F16 only (and yes all of them are pressureized) The F16 canopy has an inflation seal attached to a regulator and routed around the sill of the cockpit.

The canopy get's clamed down by hooks wich pull the canopy downward. They are all connected together with links that are attached to a torque tube and an actuator. When canopy jettison occures there are aluminum tubes that blow and expand fracturing the bolts that old the levers down. The hooks then pull free and you have canopy unlock the hard way.

The cockpit iself is pressurized from the engine. The Transparency itself is attached to the canopy frame through about 200 bolts and a foam (dry seal) The rest of the canopy is sealed up with PR1425 sealant (nasty stuff) to include the srews that hold the frame panels on (they get dipped in it)

PS this cockpit set up is in such violation of technical data as you cannot have an open cockpit display without locking the firing handles of the egress system.

Golfer · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2006, 08:33:21 PM »

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PS this cockpit set up is in such violation of technical data as you cannot have an open cockpit display without locking the firing handles of the egress system.

I'm sure that rule came about from little billy finding out "what does this do" the hard way

Thanks for the info. I figured an inflatable bladder type seal with mechanical locks but I've never had the opportunity (or real desire) to inspect one up close.

Just popped in my head since I'm still in that mode of thinking. Was at FlightSafety for a couple weeks getting my Citation type and still am awakened at night in a cold sweat having nightmares of laser pointers and electrical system diagrams. You've never been attacked by a beast spitting out Mil Spec cherry juice hyd fluid...they don't really exist, right?