For some reason we lost the other thread.. I did want to reply though, you made some interesting points. Your last post:
Hangtime you are correct, except the russians were not stopped by 'armed populace' or 'militia' at all. It was the mobilized army run by the government.
My criticism was to lazs's aspirations for a volatile type of society where trouble is solved through a civil war instead of a democratic process. I would never want to live in that kind of society.
As stated earlier, I love to shoot guns too and have nothing against registered gun ownership. However I'm extremely strongly against handing out permits to people with any kind of criminal records or especially mental history. Controlling that requires registration - and that's something where lazs also disagrees strongly because of his paranoia of the government and potential 'collection of weapons' scenario.
Did you know that after the peace agreement in finland a group of officers organized a weapon hiding program all over the country? They hid hundreds of thousands of light weapons and ammo, mines, bazookas etc. to the forests and house basements. They are so plentiful that new caches are discovered even today although they're already rendered useless in most cases. They were preparing for a guerilla war in case the communists would overpower the country after the peace agreement.
The difference with me and lazs is that we're both prepared for armed combat if need be, I just don't see my government as my enemy but something across the border instead.
It's my understanding that up through the Winter War, your Milita, operated on the Swiss model of every able bodied male citizen trained and issued a weapon; had proven to be exceptionally effective at wrestling the Russian Bear to a standstill through three invasions. It's also my understanding that at the cessetion of hostilites from the winter war, when the kajeila (sp) pennensuila was ceeded further russian terms dictated the disbanding of the militia... which was done; the populace turned in their issue arms to a local armory. But, not all of them.. as you noted, for the reasons noted.
I dunno about YOU guys there in Finland.. but there's quite a bit of respect here in the 'american gun culture' for Finlands amazing history of defiance with regards to Russia.. and it's because your citizens exibited a determination and resolve against incredible adversity with light infantry and militia, outdated gear and equipment and little outside support to retain your own government, military and rights aginst first the czar and then the Soviets .. what freedoms you have were won by men that fought when the time came for a decision.
Now.. on to the last paragraph... an interesting truisim is that governments can be usurped by coup.. military overthrow of legitimate elected governments is not very uncommon. We came very close to a similar situation here at least twice.. once in my lifetime over the cuban crisis, once during the war of 1812.
Our government has on quite a few occasions sponsored just such a senario in several latin american and asian countries, in my lifetime.. so the threat of subversion and usurpation of legitimate governement sponsored by a forigen government is NOT at all uncommon. In many countries in Africa in the last 50 years that's exactly how regime change occurs. So when suddenly, the governemnt IS the enemy... and no Forigen Army crossed the border... and you do not have an armed population... you have no choices at all, do you?
Lastly.. it is illegal here for a felon or a documented nutball to own a firearm. Whatever type of weapon I would care to purchase in my state requires documentaion and a waiting period. The point is regardless of the legality; criminals are not likely to pay much attention to laws when it comes to weapons posession or aquistion.
If a nutbag drives a car into a crowd of people, do we put the car on trial? Is chevrolet arrested?
We tend to think it's a bit more rational to punish Criminals, not guns. We do however punish very harshly when a gun is used in the commission of a crime. 'Use a gun, go to jail' is the sentancing standard in virtually every state.
Cheers!
