what a shame ..

[mrfish]

Originally posted by Eagler:
the message of most major religions is the same, it is man's interpretation that screws it up.

the message of most religions is we are right and you are wrong! we are good and you are bad.

- so now is a good time to leave religion where it belongs - as a relic of our primitive past when the night, moon and changing seasons scared us and didn't know how to treat each other or cope with the unknown.

haven't enough gods come and gone yet for the world to get it? what's zeus up to these days hmmmm?  

does it surprise anyone that of the thousands of gods we've been subjected to and died and killed for over the centuries, none actually show themselves?

seen any blue, 4 armed flaming eyed dieties walking thru your hood lately? any miraculous buring bushes give you any insights this week?  - coincidence? oh but that's their god huh - yours is much more credible whatever it/he/she is...

it's time to go on into the unknown and accept our insignificant place in an eternal and mysterious universe without our wubby, teddy and nightlite. quit living to die and live here and now.

we should extinguish religion before it extinguishes us. i'm sick of it. it's not 'man's poor interpretation of god's divine word'! it couldn't be a more clear case of 'us vs them'.

i mean the texts of almost every religion say we go to heaven and you are wrong and bad if you aren't with us - what's to misinterpret??

it's just an irritating stupid relic. grow up world and quit being afraid of the dark.

[Toad]

Well, surely you read the "Excellent article on Arab vs West relations" thread and the accompanying article at :
 http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/10/14/stiusausa03007.html?

So, (IMO) since you always like to argue the opposition position in any remotely pro-US related thread go ahead and explain why

"if your god (indirectly) handed this book of moral guidance to you, you should base your whole system of government around it"

are they so filled with hate and envy? Why are they so unhappy with the governments/dictatorships that have resulted?

They hold their own destiny in their hands yet their societies obviously causes them great disappointment.

They have the book; they've had around 1300 years to put it into practice...with basically NOTHING to show for it.

Things haven't gone sour for them in the last 60 years.. the years since the US stepped to the forefront on the world stage.

Things WENT sour for them LONG before that... and they did NOTHING to improve their lot or change their mode of operation.

Why do they not take care of their fellow starving Muslim brothers? Why is the "Great Satan" the largest donor of aid to Afghanistan and not an oil-rich country like Saudi Arabia?

...ah, because the god-given book, the precepts of which have made many of them into the poorest, most barbaric nations in the world is perfect, right?

Despite the obvious real-world evidence that has surrounded them for the last 1000 years and has made them miserable and envious, they KNOW they are the "chosen".

Some book.

Surely, I'm wrong. I know you'll correct me.  

[Eagler]

mrfish
I was born and raised a catholic, altar boy & all, but do not practice it. I don't think it did me any harm, catholic shool to just about HS.

Maybe many believe in a heaven or hell, I believe we are already in the latter. Isn't it relative? Prob I had with the h or h was that it is to cut and dry and way to short an answer. I believe in an ever ongoing journey of enlightenment or whatever you want to call it on which one life just doesn't cut it. It's a karma thing, reap what so you, ying & yang, so on & so forth. To think you are judged for eternity on what you do in what, 80 years max, seems a stretch for me. I'm afraid I'll be back many times to come...
Plus side is I'll be around for AH ver 210.02  

For all it's problems I think the average Joe needs the guidelines religion, and its beliefs, places on ones conduct & moral structure. Some of the most "Christian" & giving ppl I know have never set foot in a church, dont know the first prayer.
kinda strayed off topic again - sry..

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]

[Dowding]

Because, Toad, the Koran is basically roadkill. It's like the Christian bible -  full of promises with no real basis in fact, as you point out. Suppositions and superstitions.

A great story and if people wish to base the lives on it, that's fine by me. And frankly, its none of my business - providing they don't try and dictate how to live my life, based on their own beliefs.

I have no idea why certain Muslims hate and envy the West. I'm mystified by the extent of anti-US or anti-West feeling in certain quarters. Less so in others. But I will say this - look at the regions where Islam is based compared to those where Christianity has a stronghold. Europe had plenty of resources from which to develop a semblence of civilisation, based on what we consider human rights. Food was plentiful and more effort could be expended on development of processes that would improve living conditions. When you have an empty stomach, you're less likely to consider the finer points of philosophy.  

Now compare that situation with the Middle East. Food production has always been difficult and drought and famine have never been far away. This has stunted the development of civilisation on a par with that in the West.

Consequently, the only thing I can think of to explain the current situation is that it is a symptom of the tension that exists between the 'haves and the have-nots'. Religion is just a vehicle for it and a way certain individual/groups gain support, through their particular 'interpretation'.