This has always puzzled me...

[Krusty]

Urchin, I, too, get timid enemies, however I was more thinking of the phenomenon of calling people out for "not dying properly" than I guess I was to "encountering timid pilots" phenomenon.

No offense meant toward you specifically.

[pipz]

I think a lot has to do with exsperiance.If ya been playin this stuff any length of time you have learned what to do.You can sit back critique and say that was stupid,that was lame,why did he do that.You can say that stuff because you prolly know the form by now.A lot of people float in and out of these sims and do not develope the skills they need to pull off anything fancy.They just dont know any better.I remember when I first started I didnt know how to do anything either.I did the same stupid sh-t.Some people never get it.Is it theyre fault?Prolly not.

"A bandit at your six is better than no bandit at all"
Pipz

[Gooss]

Trying to embarass someone on Ch. 200 is a good idea.  
 
Complaining about it on the BBS is a good idea.  

Inviting a new guy to the TA to improve his ACM is a good idea.  


HONK!
Gooss

[Atoon]

as i read Urchins opening comment, He did not complain about getting killed/losing, He complained about how timid the 3-4 opposing cons around him flew. He didn't mention having any countrymen around, so it sounds like there was at least 3 cons around him and not one would engage in actual ariel combat.  Not even at 3on1.

For someone who plays for the aerial combat, nd not to win or lose, situations like this, prove the gme to be useless for his needs. I agree with Urchin on this one.

I'm really glad to read these threads, for some reason I had been considering a comeback. I will likely load the game on my new Tower, and give it one month to see if the MA will provide me with the entertainment I seek.

If not I will learn to host MY FIGHT, in H2H. Where I can make MY RULES, and enforce them MY WAY, for free. After all, it only takes 3-4 planes to have a GREAT FIGHT, and H2H allows for 8!

[john9001]

i really hate the jiggly jogely pilots that wont hold still when i try to shoot them down. they wiggle all over the place, how am i supposed to get any kills if they fly that way?

[LEDPIG]

Originally posted by LEDPIG
What are you flying urchin a spit? Why in the world would a mack truck try to dogfight a ferrarri unless your just plain stupid are really good. A p- 47 or p-38's advantage is speed, vertical performance why would i just blow my advantage to try to kill you on your terms? No i'm gonna make you follow me get you frustrated blow your energy and keep my advantage and kill you easy as i can. In a 109 or another spit hell yea i'd say dogfight all day. I don't think in ww2 actual pilots were told to dogfight a plane that had the advantage over them in a particular area unless they liked the taste of bullets in their mouth. I'd say if you've got it like that, by all means fight Mike Tyson if your a midget, otherwise kick him in the knees and break his legs to try to leverage his unfair advantage.

I'm saying apply actual  ww2 tactics to get an idea about how these planes would have been flown in real life.  Though it is fun to blow everything and fly around fat, dumb and happy and just kill stuff and be killed oh well.

[bozon]

I have no problem with "patient" BnZ pilots making a few passes before they actually go for the shot. The only ones I hate are those that will come down in a tiffy 500 mph, miss and run out of the sector before comming back.

A pilot staying above faking passes and taking his time is boring, but perfectly legit. It his money and his game, he may choose how to die. Urchin eventually did the right thing - gave him his 6 and offered a fight from a big disadvantage. Not suprisingly he killed the other guy anyway.

That's the trade off one has to accept: you want to make them fight? give up all advantage, fly a "tempting" target like a mossie or a P47 or a P38 and watch them come down to fight. If they actually give a fight, congratulate them to encourage future fighting.

But don't tell them what to do.

Bozon

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Urchin
...

That has GOT to be the most retarded logic I've ever had the pleasure to witness.  Why on earth would you casually accept a 50% chance of getting blown up or crippled, when you won't even press an attack on a moving target.  

So why do people do it?

Simple ... and I've yammered about it for years ... because the HO shot is their best odds of getting a kill. Even if they stand a 50-50 chance of dying themselves. If they don't HO, they know their odds of scoring a kill drop dramatically, and their odds of getting shot down likewise increase well above 50%.

Consider that with the HO as it is in AH (a) you gain the ballistic advantage of the enemy plane flying into your shot, (b) you can line your shot up a mile out thanks to Neon range info, and (c) the enemy plane is more likely to follow a predictable flight path that you can aim your HO shot at. Short of saddling up on a C47 with the pilot AFK it's the highest percentage shot you'll get.

Consider that a typical HO has a closure rate of at least 500 mph ... that's over 700 fps. So in one second that enemy plane when from being a blur 2 football fields away to being past you. And you're gonna aim at that and hit with any kind of accuracy?

Anyway ... that's why, Urchin.

[Pooface]

Originally posted by Stang
Kweassa, sadly every one of the timid pilots I've run across except maybe 1 or two will go for the ho/ram, yet run away short of me doing anything except blatantly giving them my 6.  I have to do this the majority of the time in the MA just to get anyone to engage me.  It's really sad.

Urchin, I have no idea why they do it.  It perplexes me as well.  Makes zero sense at all, yet almost all of them seem to do it.

99% of my fight are like this. have to give them my 6 on a plate just to get them to come down and get within 1k of me. then i just reverse on them with a simple slow barrel roll, and then they run, and i have to do it again, usually 5 times a fight to drag their e down low enough to get a shot window.

just gets boring after a while. i get plenty o kills in the MA but it bores me to death, because that's all it's become a place where numbers make the podium instead of actual skill.

[Apar]

Originally posted by Urchin
I've got a great film I took today.  Knights were fighting Bish over by some field in the middle.  Knights end up winning, vulch the field for a bit (while leaving the ack up, brainiacs), basically kill the fight.  

Anyway, the next field over starts showing a bar, so I fly over there.  I notice a couple dots, figure I'll film the encounter.  

I end up capturing a perfect example of the retardedness of the MA.  

I'll need a host, but I'll explain the film to you.  

Spit 16 and a Niki, start off higher but presumably slower than me (field was elevated).  Both come down to make lazy halfass passes.  Both break off their passes when I turn.  Then they kind of make a couple more halfass passes, always breaking off as soon as I stop flying straight and level.  Another plane comes, a 109.  He also comes boring in for a pass, and ALSO breaks off when I manuever.  

I think at this point I just get bored, and decide to joust with the Niki (I might have dodged a couple more halfass bore n zoom passes, I'm not sure).  

Predictably, the niki holds the trigger down and flies straight at me.  

Why on EARTH do people do that?  They are so afraid to fight that they'll break off a bore n zoom pass if the target so much as breaks, but in a joust they just flip down the visor and hold the trigger down.  

That has GOT to be the most retarded logic I've ever had the pleasure to witness.  Why on earth would you casually accept a 50% chance of getting blown up or crippled, when you won't even press an attack on a moving target.  

So why do people do it?

They rather lose a fight by chance (HO) then lose a knife edge dogfight by being PWN-ed by somebody.

Now that wasn't hard to figure out was it? Its an ego thing.

The catch is that they'll never become a good pilot if they don't engage in a dogfight and take that chance and even lose allot in the first place

[Pooface]

Originally posted by Apar
They rather lose a fight by chance (HO) then lose a knife edge dogfight by being PWN-ed by somebody.

Now that wasn't hard to figure out was it? Its an ego thing.

The catch is that they'll never become a good pilot if they don't engage in a dogfight and take that chance and even lose allot in the first place

yeah, it's odd, they want to be good, but arent prepared to learn:rolleyes:

[TW9]

Ya this reminds me of the time i saw an old lady helping carson palmer cross the road..

[FALCONWING]

Sounds like you ran into some decent pilots and maybe a ho'er...would have to see the film to decide....

Sounds like you consider yourself a good knifefiter and wanted then to play your game...and they didnt...

Newbs reading this board should do exactly what these guys did to you...learn from this...bored vets like being slow and hving someone with e drop in on them..cut throttle and try to outturn them....that is a mistake...you will die and these posts will stop....

If you have e advantage on a slow plane do not try to outturn them....make passes and figure out your angles...go vertical as much as you can...

The reason i said maybe a ho'er is if you are a good turner he may have thought he had a six shot from 1k out and by the time he got to 400 you had flipped your nose around....

This is not the DA.  Get some wingies.  I remember a base you were fiting at about a week ago...you were low and slow and popped one of my squaddies...you could have gotten some speed up by the time i got over there but you were still on the deck and trying to pull me and pops949 in.
We sliced and diced you til you died. you then came back at about 8k and stayed there over your base.  I thought that was smart of you...since we were lower we stayed on the cap and you picked some guys off...again i think that is smart...

[Atoon]

Most of the kids in todays world haven't had to work for or at anything in their lives. Especially the ones who have computers,  Why would they start now?

[FALCONWING]

One other thing....knits/rooks HO like mad..i assume Bish do as well...

While i dont care for it...(i think i have a better then 50% chanceof killing someone)...i have accepted the fact that in multiplane situations i have too as well.  Listening to ch200 seems most pilots admit that in busy situations "they do what they have to" to stay alive...

So i doubt that holding the trigger was anything but a guy figuring tactics is tactics and wanting you dead quickly so they could kill some more...

Again pls feel free to post the film...