La7?

[uvwpvW]

None of what you guys are discussing matters. There is only one factor that will make HTC perk a plane - over use in the MA. That's why the C-Hog got perked.

[Stang]

I'd like to see true usage numbers on the spit16 and the la7.  I would be the two of them combined gets up near 50% of total planes flown for a tour.

[Scherf]

Originally posted by bkbandit
Anything with 4 cannons should make the list.

Perk teh mossah! l33t!

[E25280]

Originally posted by Stang
I'd like to see true usage numbers on the spit16 and the la7.  I would be the two of them combined gets up near 50% of total planes flown for a tour.

Did a quick check of the stats -- doesn't quite work out.

I know that kills and deaths are not the same as "sorties", but they should correlate fairly closely.  After removing kills and deaths for vehicles, chutes and guns (leaving just "airplanes"), the LA7 + SpitXVI account for 15.3% of the kills and 12.8% of the deaths of aircraft.  The Niki is not far behind those two.  My cursory glance says the P-51D is a distant 4th.  Even removing all the bombers (including IL2 and A-20) moves the numbers up to just 16.7% of kills and 16.3% of deaths of fighters.  These are from the April tour.

All you need to do is go to the scores page, do a model vs model compare, chosing "all models" as the type of aircraft in both.  I used the first set of data that gives kill/death ratios, copied and pasted into Excel.  I am sure there is a better way to analyze the data, but this was the quickest way.

[Urchin]

That seems very low.

I'd think that the top two would account for roughly 20% of the total kills.. it has been that way historically.  

I'll check it out later, see if my analysis agrees with yours.

[Krusty]

We have about 200% the number of airplanes in this game now, as compared to the time the Chog was first introduced.

We have at LEAST 5x the number of players (don't forget, 500-slot servers are a recent addition, it used to be much lower, this was done to accomodate the enormous amount of players now), as compared to the time the Chog was first introduced.

Back then 20% *was* possible, simply because the % wasn't dilluted with twice as many aircraft options, and there were much less people flying (less variation in what was flow). The fact that the spit16 outpaced the all-time-killer (the LA7) for many months is a testament that it is worse than the Chog, when the Chog first came out. Do I think it should be perked? I don't know. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. The LA? Perked? No. 3-gun option removed? Yes!

15% in "current numbers" is probably worth 35-40% in "old numbers" lol I know that math doesn't add up, but the impact is the same.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Urchin
That seems very low.

I'd think that the top two would account for roughly 20% of the total kills.. it has been that way historically.  

I'll check it out later, see if my analysis agrees with yours.

Please do -- Always good to have a second set of eyes just to be sure I didn't have mine crossed at the time . . .

[Kuhn]

Perk the La-7? OK, I have enough points to say I dont care any more! If i do need points its back to the La-5. The two gun model is harder to get kills in, but that just means you have to be sure of your shot before you pull the trigger. The La-5 and 7 dont have alot of ammo to waste and the ballistics arent that great, but they are great rides to run in! They are also great for feild defense. What planes will be perked after these?

[Bombardy]

I'm with the camp that says remove the 3x20mm and go with only the 2x20mm....there is a big difference....and the vast majority of La-7's had only 2 cannons.......

I would even say that the 3x20mm version was produced in such low numbers as to almost consider it a "field mod"

also, anyone got a reference for the performance of the La-7 that includes acceleration data? that's really what I think casues problems in teh MA, the la7 is not hard to defeat but it's accelleration makes it almost like a UFO

[Tilt]

It would not be any great effort for HTC to split the La7 into two models at the next update.

The appropriate skin (Airmess's yellow 93 {drab olive}) already exists and can be the 3 cannon default.

Leave the icons as they are. (if its got a drab olive skin its a 3 cannon)

Plenty of options how to list them in the hanger clipboard window.


La7(44) & La7(45)

La7(2c) & La7(3c)

La7(Shvak) & La7(Beresnin)

La7(S) & La7(B)

La7(Std) & La7(Tbilisi)

La7 & La7(Tbilisi)


The problem with all the above is that Lavochkins never had such numeration.

The use of the year of manufacture may suffice however both 2 and 3 cannon variants were manufactured in 45.

The reference to Tbilisi is with respect that the main plants (Gorky and Moscow) making La7's in early 45 produced 2 cannon variants. However the much smaller plant of Tiblisi started to produce the 3 cannon variant earlier.

Tiblisi production models account for nearly all the 3 cannon variants to see action in the GPW.

I need to check my spelling of Tiblisi. (edited to read Tbilisi)

[Krusty]

Split? Why split? Just remove one weapons option. They've done it on other aircraft on more than one occasion.

No need for 2 identical planes, exactly 100% identical except for guns loadout, where one plane has a super rare almost unheard of guns option that is much more lethal than the default.

Might as well just remove the super rare guns option.

If the La7 were just an up-engined LA5 (as it should be) it wouldn't be nearly as much a threat as it is in AH, but that's personal conjecture on my part. I haven't died from LA7s in a while, it's 90% spit16s these days.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by E25280
Did a quick check of the stats -- doesn't quite work out.

I know that kills and deaths are not the same as "sorties", but they should correlate fairly closely.  After removing kills and deaths for vehicles, chutes and guns (leaving just "airplanes"), the LA7 + SpitXVI account for 15.3% of the kills and 12.8% of the deaths of aircraft.  The Niki is not far behind those two.  My cursory glance says the P-51D is a distant 4th.  Even removing all the bombers (including IL2 and A-20) moves the numbers up to just 16.7% of kills and 16.3% of deaths of fighters.  These are from the April tour.

All you need to do is go to the scores page, do a model vs model compare, chosing "all models" as the type of aircraft in both.  I used the first set of data that gives kill/death ratios, copied and pasted into Excel.  I am sure there is a better way to analyze the data, but this was the quickest way.

I got numbers pretty close to this.. I got 16.98 % for the La7 and Spit 16 combined (kills), I took the kills of GVs out and most of the bombers.  Think I left the IL-2 in, since I see that being used as a fighter quite a bit.

That actually seems very low to me... I seem to recall the numbers being around 40% for the top 5 a couple years ago.  Maybe the arena is getting more diverse, but so slowly that nobody can tell .

Haha, maybe not so much after all... got 36.16% for the top 5 killings fighters.  Using my numbers they were the Spit 16, La7, Niki, P-51D, and Tiffie.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Krusty
Split? Why split? Just remove one weapons option. They've done it on other aircraft on more than one occasion.

I believe in thise instances they were correcting an error........the 3 x B2 20mm la7 existed and is a viable AH ac

No need for 2 identical planes, exactly 100% identical except for guns loadout, where one plane has a super rare almost unheard of guns option that is much more lethal than the default.

Might as well just remove the super rare guns option.

it was not super rare.......... more saw action than several othe varients featuring in AH

If the La7 were just an up-engined LA5 (as it should be) it wouldn't be nearly as much a threat as it is in AH, but that's personal conjecture on my part.  

It was not up engined....in fact it used the very same engine as the La5FN (of 1944 at least)

Simply put by splitting the model AH gets it right and is able to address many whines pertaining to the mark commonly expressed here.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Urchin
I got numbers pretty close to this.. I got 16.98 % for the La7 and Spit 16 combined (kills), I took the kills of GVs out and most of the bombers.  Think I left the IL-2 in, since I see that being used as a fighter quite a bit.

That actually seems very low to me... I seem to recall the numbers being around 40% for the top 5 a couple years ago.  Maybe the arena is getting more diverse, but so slowly that nobody can tell .

Haha, maybe not so much after all... got 36.16% for the top 5 killings fighters.  Using my numbers they were the Spit 16, La7, Niki, P-51D, and Tiffie.

Thanks, Urchin, for checking.  I think I forgot to remove the TBM in my original numbers, so my totals are 16.8 and 16.5 excluding the IL2.  So we are definitely in the same ballpark.

Just for grins, I did two more data points -- Instead of April, I chose March and December 05.  Looks like either the "Lgay" and "Spitdweeb" comments plastered all over are having a slow erosive effect, or the changes in FM narrowed the gap a little between performance and people are beginning to figure that out.  In March, the two combined for 18.3% of kills and 17.7% of deaths, and in December the figures were 19.9% and 18.6%.

I tried to look at September, but I forgot that the Spit XVI had not been introduced at that point.  All the current XVI flyers seemed to have been flying either Spit Vs or Spit IXs then.  Use of ALL SPITS has actually climbed (no surprise with the XVI and VIII intros) from 10.5% of kills, 12.2% of deaths in Sept to 14.9% / 16.2% in December, and 12.5% / 15.0% in April.  The plane set that sufferred over the same time frame is the 109s - The G-10 to K-4 conversion I expect being at least partially to blame.  In Sept, the percent of kills and deaths were 7.8% / 6.5%, dropping to 4.4% / 4.2% in December and 3.6% / 3.4% in April.

The LA 7's figures have been up and down:  Sept - Dec - Mar - Apr figures for kills are 9.5 / 9.0 / 9.3 / 8.6, and death percentages are 8.5 / 8.2 / 8.3 / 7.4.

[Urchin]

I'd chalk up the drop in LW usage to the change in the cockpits... the LW currently have probably the worst forward views of any single engined planes in the game.  The old G-10 was the same as the new K-4 (it was modelled to K-4 standards), and overall performance actually got BETTER... the 109F4 is now quite the turny plane.  

So I think that the drop in usage is more than likely just reflecting the difficulty in getting kills... You can lose enemy planes in the cockpit bars as close as 100 yards.