"The Era of Arafat is Over!"

[Gadfly]

I think he is cheering for the reaction, not the man.

Regardless of who he is, I think that in this instance, he made the right call.

[Udie]

Originally posted by fd ski:

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1395000/1395080.stm

 Bunch of crazy lebonese (arabs) did it not him or the Isreali army.  AND it has NOTHING to do with what's going on now.  I've known too many people from the region in my life to think that they are not whacked out crazy diddlying people. Yes that's right, even the ones that are (were 15 yrs ago) my friends are crazy whacked out arabs.  They HATE Jews more than I've seen anybody hate anything in my life.  Hell even my Iranian friends think/know the arabs are nuts.   This is why Isreal is forced to do what they must to survive

 I guess some will hate the jews for all time. Really sad, but I guess that's what happens when your God's chosen people  

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Udie ]

[Udie]

Originally posted by Gadfly:
I think he is cheering for the reaction, not the man.

Regardless of who he is, I think that in this instance, he made the right call.

yeah basicly, I really don't know too much about him.  Call it blind support for Isreal I guess.

 BTW, just so you guys know.  My father was born Jewish but his mother/father died the night he was born so he was adopted by a Christian family.  So the way I look at it is that these are "my" people.  Go ahead and try and make me change sides Fdski, you'll only fail.

[Eagler]

Israeli army enter Bethlehem, six dead
   GAZA CITY, Gaza, Oct. 19 (UPI) -- At least six Palestinians were killed Friday during
confrontations with Israeli troops and tanks that were ordered into the Palestinian-controlled
towns of Bethlehem and Beit Jala.

   Israel conducted the incursions ahead of funerals for three members of the militant
Palestinian Fatah, who were killed Thursday when their vehicle exploded.

   The incursions had begun in response to the assassination of Israeli Interior Minister
Rehavam Zeevi, who was shot to death Wednesday. The Popular Front for the Liberation
of Palestine said its members killed Zeevi, a hard-liner who opposed a suggestion
of loosening the Israeli clampdown on Palestinian areas. Israel has demanded that
those responsible for the killing be handed over to them, and Palestinian officials
have arrested several people in their investigation.

   Israel has recently been loosening economic and movement restrictions on Palestinian
areas in light of an apparently successful cease-fire after more than a year of intifada.

   Israel said the clampdowns were necessary given the mortar barrage from Palestinian
areas shortly after the death of Atef Abayat and two relatives --all of whom were
associated with Fatah.

   Palestinians said the three were killed as part of the Israeli campaign that targets
people suspected of carrying out attacks on Israeli interests. Israel has termed the
event a "work accident," its euphuism for someone killed while working with a bomb.

   With tanks -- at least 30 according to Palestinian witnesses -- and troops moving
into the area by dawn, a well-placed military source said Israel was likely to continue
into the Palestinian areas once reinforcements were deployed.

   The incursion was met with several confrontations.

   Medical sources said six Palestinians were killed Friday in the Gaza Strip town
of Khan Younis and the West Bank town of Ramallah. A least four of the deaths occurred
when Palestinians either fired weapons or threw stones at Israeli soldiers.

   However, hospital sources said a 13-year-old boy was killed after a tank shell exploded
near his house in Khan Younis. Israel said that death occurred shortly after a group
of children were seen playing with an object. And a 36-year-old woman died when she
was caught in cross fire during a gun battle.

   At least 12 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank and Gaza since Zeevi
was killed. An Israeli civilian was killed and two injured in an attack near Mar Sava
Monastery in the Judean Desert.

======================================

powderkeg -  as riled up as the nutty Muslims are this is going to explode.

[fd ski]

Originally posted by Udie:

So the way I look at it is that these are "my" people.  Go ahead and try and make me change sides Fdski, you'll only fail.

Is that the open-minded and tolerant part of you speaking ?

Who exacly are you blaming for your grand parent's death ?

My grand father was a bastard son of some rich guy in Poland, and best i can tell from the last name, he was prabably jewish.
So what ?
Are they now supposed to be "my" people ?
Should i hate everyone here who is german because they killed "my" people ? Twice for that matter ? Poles and Jews ?

Everyone on this fricking planet is "our" people. There is no us and them. There is only us.

By large token most people want to live till tomorrow and see their kids grow in better world then they lived in.
Your nationalistic stereotypes are nothing more then a flashback to 1930s when some believed then you can put everyone in the same category based on thier passport of size of their nose.

Is every arab terrorist ?
Is every 18 year old american girl a Britny Spears wanna be bimbo ?
Is evveryone from arctic short ?
Are all Swedish people blond ?
Are all black people lazier then white ones ?
Are all polish people stupid ?
Germans evil ?
Jews greedy ?
Americans uneducated ?

How many stupid stereotypes do you need to justfy your own point of view about others ?

Oh, i forgot, they are all nuts !!!

Wake up Udie. World is full of people who don't give a rat's bellybutton about politics, nationalism and finger pointing. They want to live out their days and have safety for their kids.
There are nutcases in every nation on this planet. Do you really want me to start posting links to the US based hate groups ? Will that prove that we have our own share of idiots ?

Hate politics feed on powerty. We don't have powerty so it doesn't breed here, but do study depresion times in this country, you might find it revealing. 99% of idiots you see on TV are representative of 1% of idiots that inhibit this planet. This goes for thier idiots as well as ours.

And in the end, there are only our idiots, for that matter, collectively we all are retarded. Let's put away religions, flags and symbols. Let's forget the race and accent. What is different between you and I ?
Are you better then me ? Or am i better then you ? Why would my accent be a reason for someone to hate me ? Why should your passport be a reason for someone to kill you ?

Some here will continue to tell me that what we are doing right now is just and proper. And it is. Arguing over details doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of Taliban and Osama, but do look at your own attitudes and convictions. Look at the statements of hate you guys post here. Only difference between then and those of Osama are those who are blamed in them.....

[Wobble]

doesent it say somewhere in the bible(christian) that when the middle east sees peace, the end of the world would be near??.. not in those exact words of course but the same meaning

[Tac]

"Is every 18 year old american girl a Britny Spears wanna be bimbo "

No, but we can pray they do become one  

[kbman]

Excellent post FD, one of the best i've seen on this board. Thank you.

kbman

[Thrawn]

Do you realize that left and right aren't even arguing here?

The vast majority of this board agrees, Bin Laden and the Taliban must be stopped.  The only way this can happen is by killing them.  So be it.  

Both the left and the right want to minimize the risk to men and women that are going to affect this.

The only conflict is over long term goals.  I think we all agree that killing Bin Laden and the Taleban will not stop terrorism.  Nor can our armed forces alone do this.  It seems to me that right is concentrating on the immediate and the left on the long term.  

I think that when the left goes on (myself included) about where the terrorists are coming from, the right feels that we aren't supporting the men and women in our armed services.  And then the insults starts, unless of course the left hasn't yelled 'Nazi' already.  

The military alone cannot win this war.  But, they can give it a great start.  Again, I think we all agree with this.  A tautism - killing a terroist is a great way of getting rid of a terrorist.  But we also need to do what we can, within the limits of not giving up our freedom or soveriegnty, to try and see if some of their claims are substantiated.

Religous fanatics aside, to the middle-east, the west does not represent freedom and democracy.  It represents a group of powerful countries propping up dictators and regimes that have horrible human rights records.  For the most part, they aren't trying to destroy our way of life.  Our way of life is not what we show them.  Freedom and democracy at home but tyrany is okay elsewhere?  Of course not.

This is an opportunity to give the people of these countries freedom and democracy.  It's probably the greatest gift the west can give them.  And it will serve the west's interests as well.  When the Taliban is destroyed, I hope that a truely democratic government is put in place.  And not another dictator.  Luckyily there are some pretty smart guys at the top...well near the top   .  And I think they've been doing a better job than I could.  I hope they keep it up.

[Eagler]

fd
I understand all that and you are right. Now get the other guy to understand it as in the meantime he is trying to kill  me so I will try to kill him 1st.

[Raubvogel]

Germans evil ?
Americans uneducated ?

I'm an evil uneducated German American...muhahaha  

[Voss]

One of the best handles I've seen in the arena is SnkyBast (I think it is). Don't you wish we could just remove this amazinhunk's power by stealing his money (bin Laden's I mean)? Wouldn't that be sneaky and underhanded (snicker)? I wonder how long he would live then?

Ah, well. He'll be dead soon.

[Hangtime]

Solution:

The American Global Government Commssion.

"Canada, Mexcio, UK in its entirety are now the 51st,52nd and 53rd States ratified into the United States this week..."

Yah. Absorb 'em all.  

Think of the tax benefits... and all those new customers, earning frequent flier miles.

[Udie]

Is that the open-minded and tolerant part of you speaking ?

 No that's the I'm pissed off that my country is at war side talking.

Who exacly are you blaming for your grand parent's death ?

 What does it matter who I blame, I don't blame anybody, except the crook who shot my grandand and caused my grandmom's premature delivery and death.

My grand father was a bastard son of some rich guy in Poland, and best i can tell from the last name, he was prabably jewish.
So what ?
Are they now supposed to be "my" people ?
Should i hate everyone here who is german because they killed "my" people ? Twice for that matter ? Poles and Jews ?

Everyone on this fricking planet is "our" people. There is no us and them. There is only us.

 Unfortunately some of "our" people want to kill everybody else on the planet. There's a really large chunk of em that want all Jews dead too.  What are we supposed to do about them?  It would be nice if everybody could just get along, but that ain't never going to happen.  So we could talk to them, but that doesn't work because they are evil and they lie.  We've tried apease them for too long and look where it has gotten us.  So I say kill the ones that are trying/wanting to kill us.  Do it big, do it nasty so that nobody else will ever get the gumption to do it again.
 
By large token most people want to live till tomorrow and see their kids grow in better world then they lived in.
Your nationalistic stereotypes are nothing more then a flashback to 1930s when some believed then you can put everyone in the same category based on thier passport of size of their nose.

 So is this how you call me a nazi without saying the word?  Sorry bud but that's just  pathetic.  My grandfather and great uncles were over there trying to save your grandfather from Hitler. diddly you very much for comparing me to him...


Is every arab terrorist ?
no but most terrorist are arab...

Is every 18 year old american girl a Britny Spears wanna be bimbo ?
Is evveryone from arctic short ?
Are all Swedish people blond ?
Are all black people lazier then white ones ?
Are all polish people stupid ?
Germans evil ?
Jews greedy ?
Americans uneducated ?

How many stupid stereotypes do you need to justfy your own point of view about others ?

 I don't think I stereotyped anybody.  I said all my arab friends were nuts, because they were.  I stopped being friends with them back in '91 when I saw them frothing at the mouth after that scud hit those barracks killing 28.  That was a sureal moment that was, me the only American in the room with about 10 palestinians.  

 You can try to stereo type me as some sort of nazi racist, but your only being what you accused me of being.  It just don't work like that.  I grew up in Houston, Tx.  Most people think oooh texas, must be a hick.  Guess what?  I grew up in one of the most multiculteral places on earth. I had black friends when I was 2 yrs old.   I had an Indian friend in first grade.  From 3rd to 5th grade there were families from Norway, Japan, and Mexico living within 5 houses of my house.  Their kids were my best friends. I was introduced to more cultures by the time I was 10 yrs old than most people are in their whole lives.  So I've seen first hand that most people/cultures are alike and want the same things in life, the main thing being peace.


Oh, i forgot, they are all nuts !!!

 alot of them seem to be.


Wake up Udie. World is full of people who don't give a rat's bellybutton about politics, nationalism and finger pointing. They want to live out their days and have safety for their kids.
There are nutcases in every nation on this planet. Do you really want me to start posting links to the US based hate groups ? Will that prove that we have our own share of idiots ?

 I never said their weren't nutcases everywhere.  Hell i'd be we got more people over here that are bent than anywhere else in the world.  But they don't go around crashing airplanes into buildings.  

 Don't you think an Isreali want to live out his or her life in peace? With out some crazed palestinian teenager lobbing a mortar into their neighborhood?  Don't you think the average Isreali would like to live a life that didn't consist of every country that surrounds their country wanting them all dead?  Isreal is just in protecting itself from people that want it destroyed.  


Hate politics feed on powerty. We don't have powerty so it doesn't breed here, but do study depresion times in this country, you might find it revealing. 99% of idiots you see on TV are representative of 1% of idiots that inhibit this planet. This goes for thier idiots as well as ours.

 Hate politics was alive and well here until 9/11/01.  Probobly still is too.  Politics is the last thing on my mind right now.  I'm hoping that this will be some of the good to come out of this whole ordeal.  Maybe the left and right and finaly get together and do what's right for our nation.

And in the end, there are only our idiots, for that matter, collectively we all are retarded. Let's put away religions, flags and symbols. Let's forget the race and accent. What is different between you and I ?
Are you better then me ? Or am i better then you ? Why would my accent be a reason for someone to hate me ? Why should your passport be a reason for someone to kill you ?

 Wouldn't it be nice if everybody on this planet could understand that seemingly extreemly simple consept?


Some here will continue to tell me that what we are doing right now is just and proper. And it is. Arguing over details doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of Taliban and Osama, but do look at your own attitudes and convictions. Look at the statements of hate you guys post here. Only difference between then and those of Osama are those who are blamed in them.


 We are just in what we are doing, and it has needed to be done for a long time. I do think we are lucky that we have Bush in white house.  He's has a lot more wisdom than people give/gave him credit for.  He has assembled one of the strongest cabinets if not the strongest of my lifetime.  I just hope the rest of the world has the stomach for what has to be done.  You have to know that Iraq is next.  

 And just so you know.  I do want the Palestinians to have their own state.  You may remember that they almost did. I seem to remember a few years back that Isreal accepted one of Clinton's deals but there was a stumbling block on the Palestine side. That silly little clause in their charter or constitution, what ever they call it, that calls for the destruction of the Isreali state.  They wouldn't take it out.  Would you want somebody who'd main goal in life was to kill you and your family forcing living next door to you and forcing himself on to your property all the time?

 I don't have any answers. I just know that we have to stop these evil people from doing what they do.  If America has to go it alone I'm willing to do it, because it's the right thing to do. And in the end that's usualy what us fat cat sleeping Americans do when times get tough.

 One more thing. You can get angry and hate me for what I believe in, but please don't ever try and compair me to a nazi again.  That really pisses me off bad.  It's uncalled for and just down right rude.  I never called you a nazi I don't think...

[Toad]

Udie, how's the return to the BBS going?

 

Smile, bro... not everyone's going to agree and some of them can't resist the ad hominem argument.