Do scores affect gameplay? Do captures interfere with fun?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by JMFJ
Well then let me be more specific what is wrong with someone wanting to run, when outmatched or outnumbered?

JMFJ

That's up to them

I think the point folks have been trying to make though, is it's hard to get better if you never take a chance and dive in.

Since no one dies and planes are free, why not?  I think the concern is that folks get too caught up in worrying about score, rank, perks etc that they forget to fight a bit.

Again, in the end it is up to them, but it's too bad if the fear of losing robs them of the fun it can be to survive a fight when you didn't think you would.

[JMFJ]

Originally posted by Guppy35
That's up to them

I think the point folks have been trying to make though, is it's hard to get better if you never take a chance and dive in.

Since no one dies and planes are free, why not?  I think the concern is that folks get too caught up in worrying about score, rank, perks etc that they forget to fight a bit.

Again, in the end it is up to them, but it's too bad if the fear of losing robs them of the fun it can be to survive a fight when you didn't think you would.

I agree, if you don't challenge yourself against better sticks you will never become a better stick.  But for those that don't want to play that way, I don't feel it makes them a negative addition to the game.  Which is how they are often portrayed, not necessarily in this thread but in general.

JMFJ

[DoKGonZo]

I agree the focus on atta-boys and perks has skewed things. But there needs to be some kind of scoring system, and this is better than anything else I've seen. At least it promotes offense instead of defense.

But to acheive the "goal" as set out by the scoring system, well, the players have found the optimizations. Horde. HO. Ram. Vultch. Pork. Lather, rinse, repeat. The proliferation of people relying on HO'ing and ramming is getting pretty bad. Some don't care about getting better, but I think a large number realize they can "win" without putting in all that effort, so why bother doing the work?

The impact of a dead barracks in terms of number of affected players gives the porker a lot more power to affect overall gameplay than he should have. Likewise that ground kills are counted the same as air kills for perks promotes the "3-passes and out" runway vultch dweebs.

It's not that the current system is so bad, its that the style of play has been optimized to it and that is eroding the quality of gameplay. So some adjustments are in order.

[Edbert]

JMFJ (with all due respect and IMHO),

The scores are easily manipulated by anyone who tries to manipulate them.  I can increase my scores drastically by simply flying for score at the expense of fun...but that style of gameplay is a road to burnout and frustration for me.

I see nothing wrong with using superior speed and escaping a gangbang. But in general, if your plane is capable of getting away from an enemy due to a performance advantage (speed or climb) then the same performance advantage could be used to kill the enemy rather than just run away. I fly with a bunch of T&B experten, but I get irritated when every spit-dweeb in the MA insists I turnfight him with my Typhoon. In my opinion...if you stretch out to say within about d2.0 to d.25  then you are extending for another attack, of course if you just keep "extending" indefinitely then you are being too timid. Again, in my opinion...runners are the ones who travel entire sectors in a superior aircraft avoiding a 1v1, I have chased them out to where I lose their icon and end up chasing a dot, usually back to his base/friends. I just don't get that behavior at all.

[68DevilM]

ill run when i ussually get into a pointless turning fight with a plane that has a better turn rate then mine, then just try to get as much distace as possible and re engage.

[Guppy35]

Makes you wonder if there would be a way to have a 'no scoring zone' within a certain distance of an airfield.  You could still vulch to your heart's content, but they wouldn't count towards kills.  The 'attaboys" would drop considerably as would the number of 10 kill runs showing up on the screen.

I know it's a never happen thing, but it was fun to think about for a minute

[mars01]

I see nothing wrong with using superior speed and escaping a gangbang. But in general, if your plane is capable of getting away from an enemy due to a performance advantage (speed or climb) then the same performance advantage could be used to kill the enemy rather than just run away.

Bingo!

Extending to 2 - 2.5 is a bit tho

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by 68DevilM
ill run when i ussually get into a pointless turning fight with a plane that has a better turn rate then mine, then just try to get as much distace as possible and re engage.

And that's a lot different then the guys who blow in at light speed in their LA7, HO and run.

If I'm out and about in my 38G (since the last patch) and get stuck in down low with a Spit or N1K and the fight is starting to get slow, I'll nose down and try and get some distance and speed before getting back into it.  

You are still looking to fight, but you aren't going to fight the better turn fighting birds fight.  Nothing wrong with that.

[JMFJ]

Originally posted by Edbert
but I get irritated when every spit-dweeb in the MA insists I turnfight him with my Typhoon.[/B]

That's exactly what I'm talkin about some guys take it as insult that I don't want to turn fight with a plane I know is a lost cause in turnfights.  So I grab some E and come back to finish the job.  As soon as I won't turn fight with a plane that is not really a turnfighter they start forcing HO's.  In which case if i'm lucky enough to survive I'm a B&Z HO Dweeb.  The community's incessant double standards, and my way is the right belief's grow tiresome.

Now if i'm in a typhy and another guy is in a typhy that's different, but a typhy v.s. a spit in a turn fight..........give me a break.  Maybe levi could pull it off but i'm no levi.

JMFJ

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
But there needs to be some kind of scoring system

Why?

Serious question.

- oldman

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Why?

Serious question.

- oldman

Go back to the AvA forums!!!!!:furious

[mars01]

That's exactly what I'm talkin about some guys take it as insult that I don't want to turn fight with a plane I know is a lost cause in turnfights. So I grab some E and come back to finish the job. As soon as I won't turn fight with a plane that is not really a turnfighter they start forcing HO's.

 Do you extend max 2.5 or do you go out of range all together and then come back and cherry the guy when he is fighting someone more agressive or should I say more of an even match.

I have no problem with guys that extend to get a better position, but still keep the heat on.  It is easy enough to tell which is which.

The community's incessant double standards, and my way is the right belief's grow tiresome.

"Some guys", has now turned into "the community", your making molehills into mountains.  If your not a runner why do you care?

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Why?

Serious question.

- oldman

Because the dweebs demand it.

Serious answer.

[DoKGonZo]

You need some kind of scoring system because, well, it's a game. There needs to be some metric for "victory." Some yardstick for competition. The experienced people outgrow these, of course, and see k/d or whatever as a meaningless number.


Ground kills are probably pretty easy to deal with. Just add in like a 5-second timer from the time a plane leaves the ground (we know this trigger is detected because that's when external views are disabled). Until that 5 seconds expires, the kill doesn't count for perks or streaks - but still counts for k/d for all concerned. 5 seconds is enough to get your wheels up and make at least a 90 degree turn. So for base captures, you'll still get vultched as soon as you appear - but the attackers won't be racking up the gaudy perks/streaks in the process.

And for the guy vultching for score, well, he has to wait until the target isn't a grape for it to pay off. Boo. Hoo.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
....We have to have a score system...

Originally posted by Oldman731
Why?

Serious question.

- oldman

Actually, AvA gives good evidence that getting rid of the scoring wouldnt make a huge difference in play.

The times I've tried AvA, there've been a good group of guys who really like the fight and will switch sides, etc to keep a good one going.

But when those guys arent on, the high alt dweebery, the running from fights, the ganging, and the picking are every bit as bad as in the MA. At least in the MA, there's more than one place to find bad guys to fight....


I really think frightened flying comes more from lower skills than from score chasing. Even when no one keeps track of points, like in AvA, the same unaggressive behaviors happen.

Bottom line: personal choice determines aggressiveness. When some guys keep dying, they'll try to learn why and get better. When other guys die lots, they just say, "when I get into a fight I always lose -- so I'll stop fighting  and gang or pick."

Scores or no scores.