Author Topic: Diversity Training  (Read 1667 times)

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2001, 02:10:00 AM »
i had to do a 3-day retreat of that crap when i worked for legal aid.

we had to sing songs, talk about what makes us cranky and other stupid stuff. we had to draw a 'spirit animal' that would guide us through the learning, then cut it out and wear it on our shirts. it was pathetic and expensive to the people who funded it....ya know: taxpayers.

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2001, 05:53:00 AM »
<Giggle>

We dun' have that here to any large extent

<giggle>

Paper cut out spirit animal?

<ROFL>

Too amusing  :)

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2001, 08:05:00 AM »
Had it here at the Lazy B too.  Waste of time...1% of the population makes 99% look like they need diversity training.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2001, 08:47:00 AM »
mrfish
I have to ask  :)
what was your spirit animal.. that'd been the funniest thing to watch. They'd kicked me out as I wouldn't have been able to keep a "straight" face  :)
Don't worry guys, with the population of blacks er african americans growing at a rate faster than er the white pop and more and more gays coming out of the closet everyday, we will be the minority soon enough  :( Think JJ will represent us when that day comes?
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Offline Yoj

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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2001, 11:48:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mietla:


But,... if you are not white, not heterosexual, not male, not Christian, or handicapped, you can insult whites, heterosexuals, males or Christians at will.

Those whom you insult will be called racist/sexist/homophobic etc, if they object.

Dude, if that can happen where you are, I'd say it was time to find another place to work.

I agree that for the majority, "Sensitivity" training is a waste of time and effort.  But I'll tell you for sure that where I work, insulting or demeaning ANYONE because of race, religion, gender or orientation will get you in a world of trouble - and that includes white Christian male heterosexuals.

Also, I don't know what kind of training sessions you had, but the ones here did NOT assume the only people to be offensive would be white Christian male heterosexuals.  

And in spite of it, I hear a great deal of very sexist commentary.  It seems that, regardless of race, religion or origin, the one thing guys can agree on is that its fair game to make comments about women - as long as they aren't in the room.  So, maybe a little training ain't such a bad idea   :)

- Yoj

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2001, 12:51:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yoj:
And in spite of it, I hear a great deal of very sexist commentary.  It seems that, regardless of race, religion or origin, the one thing guys can agree on is that its fair game to make comments about women - as long as they aren't in the room.  So, maybe a little training ain't such a bad idea    :)

 It is not harassment if it does not involve the woman.
 Our society outlaws/controls objectionable ways of acting. Those guys are voicing their thoughts, so your problem with them would be that they think the wrong way.

 Are there supposed to be kinds of thoughts that are legal to think (at lieast till the mind-reader is developed) but which cannot be shared with friends?

 Do you really think that wondering how good a women is in bed is objectionable (if done in company that does not mind hearing it)?
 What would you tell such a guy in sencitivity training?

 You could try dispelling someone's racial prejudices by producing scientific proofs of their equalities but you cannot argue the fact that women are enjoyable and natural to have sex with, unless you are an ortodox catolic, of course.

 Fantacising and speculating about enjoying something we do not have right is very natural for humans - driving a car, owning a house, having sex with a woman, driving over your boss...   ;)
 As long as that fantacising does not turn into objectionable actions, there is nothing here.

 Oops...
 It looks like I am here conducting a sencitivity training with you imploring you to be sencitive and tolerant to your "sexist" fellows' habits...  :)

 miko

Offline Yoj

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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2001, 05:30:00 PM »
Actually Miko, those are not the kinds of comments I was referring to.  I have no objection to comments on a woman's attractiveness, or even raunchier speculation.  As you said, its natural.  So long as the woman does not have to put up with hearing it if she doesn't want to its not a problem.

The kind of comments I refer to are the ones that are demeaning blanket statements.  Comments what women do, or think, or are capable of as though they are all the same.  And I find them a problem not because the men making them are not "thinking proper thoughts" but because its rampant prejudice. The idea that anyone can look at another person and assume they know something about them is the root of racism, sexism, nationalism and all the other "isms" that plague our species.   And it matters not whether its a guy looking at a well-built blonde, a Greek looking at a Turk, an American goodole boy looking at a 16 year old black kid in Gangsta get-up, or that same 16 year old kid looking at YOU.  If they assume they know something about the person they are looking at, they are pre-judging, and its dangerous - even when they assume good things

To me, that's what this sensitivity training is supposed to be about.  The fact that its badly done, done for many of the wrong reasons, usually insulting, and largely ineffective does not mean its intent is not valuable.  Unfortunately it tries to do for adults something their parents should have done for them as children.

But that's another story.

- Yoj

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Yoj ]

Offline Don

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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2001, 06:19:00 PM »
Quote
The sad part is that is that because you are a white guy your supposed to sit there and let them talk down to you. However if you did that to a minority you would be labeled insensitive and sent back to diversity training.  

Well Cap'n:
Ya don't have to be white but, definitely Male. If you meet the criteria it is assumed that you are in need of sensitivity training, hehe "all men are dogs" after all  :)
I can tell you though, if it weren't for some messing it up for all of us over the years, this crud would never have started in the first place. But, IMO, in the workplace, it is more for fluff and appearance than anything. If the watermelon hit the fan, management could say they have such a program in place and then with a clear conscience, place the blame on the prro dumb bastige that spread his ignorance in the first place.

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2001, 06:22:00 PM »
it was an owl ok?!?!? sheesh...

Offline Don

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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2001, 06:22:00 PM »
Quote
Ever notice how all racist sexist people are white males  

No, I haven't   :)
The racist I know are all stupid and ignorant no matter how smart they have thought they are. The sexists are very similar to the racists, just a buncha handsomehunkes who can't keep their stupidity to themselves.

Offline Don

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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2001, 06:30:00 PM »
Quote
Also, I don't know what kind of training sessions you had, but the ones here did NOT assume the only people to be offensive would be white Christian male heterosexuals.

And in spite of it, I hear a great deal of very sexist commentary. It seems that, regardless of race, religion or origin, the one thing guys can agree on is that its fair game to make comments about women - as long as they aren't in the room. So, maybe a little training ain't such a bad idea  

Yoj: LOL! Same as it ever was  :) I am sensitive when it calls for it, I respect all because I don't want a buncha pissed off people around me.
I am insensitive when my wife isn't around and I aint gonna offend anyone cuz its fun at times when I'm with guys. White guys don't have the monoploy on being guys  :)
Training cannot make me change from being a dork but, if I go over board and offend others, I might get the livin watermelon knocked outta me. Give respect, get respect.
Legislating it will not work though. However, a good training program will provide useful information not, drivel which people resent.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2001, 08:35:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrfish:
it was an owl ok?!?!? sheesh...

I take it no pictures ?
 :)
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Offline mrfish

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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2001, 08:52:00 PM »
mercifully - no.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2001, 12:43:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yoj:
Actually Miko, those are not the kinds of comments I was referring to.  I have no objection to comments on a woman's attractiveness, or even raunchier speculation...
 The kind of comments I refer to are the ones that are demeaning blanket statements.  Comments what women do, or think, or are capable of as though they are all the same...

 Sorry, I misread your post, Yoj. When conjuring an image of a bunch of men discussing a woman in an objectionable way, my first thought was that they are talking about her physical atributes, not professional qualifications...

 Anyway, just such real prejudice is very unlikely to be helped by any kind of training because is is rooted in person's experience, intellect and education - not something thta is possible to fix.

 The good knwes is that neither should anything be done about it. Such stupid and uneducated people are rarely in a position of power and authority anyway, so they cannot really affect women's chance of advancement anyway.

 In today's US economy it is very difficult to hire a qualifies specialist, so any bigot who somehow ended up in executive position would only hurt his business by losing a chance to hire a qualifued women to fill the slot.

 Of course there are quite a few real physiological reasons why women are inferior to man in some situations/occupations - individually or on average.
 In some cases they are superior for similar reasons.

<S>
miko

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2001, 01:09:00 PM »
Forced tolerance, the biggest ingredient in the best recipe for intolerance, inequality and ignorance.

Born and raised in Wash, DC... I don't need no stupid diversity training.. *I* was the minority in my neighborhood.
-SW