Originally posted by mrfish:
it is ironic that you call me blind, yet you state it to be a 50 year conflict lol - pretty convenient to start the timeline there eh, miko!.
The only thing I said in my post is that the State of Israel exists for about 50 years and has been in the state of war with palestinians ever since - fair or not is not the point here.
According to the news report it allows food suppies to be brought to it's enemies - that is a very unusual in a world history of warfare, may be even unique.would the palestinians have gone to other countries to hunt down jews and kill them? be real. That is kind of counter-productive. Most of jews outside of Israel are actively anti-zionist. They think that creating Israel was unnecessary and artificial act and with lessons learned from history jews in civilised countries are no longer persecuted or in danger of another Holocaust.
That opposed to Zionists who think that only in their own state would jews be safe from extermination/persecution.
So attacking jews who are outside Israel and driving them into the arms of Zionists would be very stupid on palestinian part if liberation of Palestine from Jews was their goal.
It sounds that jews outside Israel is exactly what palestinians would want them and they should encourage, not terrorise those people.
and ps - you, having lived in israel, and being associated with the zionist movement, should state and reveal your bias before championing their cause as an 'objective' poster. Where did you get that? I did spent total of three weeks there on two occasions. That hardly qualifies as "having lived" there.
As I've stated before, I am not a supporter of Israel as Jewish state. I can name you countless reasons why jews should not have created their own state - starting with the fact that Ashkenasi jews being much smarter then average people would have to waste their potential on menial jobs or bring in foreigners anyway to fill those jobs - defeating the idea of mono-national state.
Also the permanent state of war necessitates strong government involvement in all aspects of life which along with the traditions of the founders (those who were not religious fundamentalists were socialists - I dislike them both) makes Israel a socialist state.
I would rather have jews (and any other nation) living in another state as a minority then in a national but religious or socialist state.
If you have read my previous posts, you would have notiiced that I argued for letting them all (jews, palestinians whoever) to US and letting the rest kill each other - like victorious afganis are doing now.
According to your own standards I would be a very poor zionist.
I am not religious, so I would never support a cause that would try to return the most educated and emansipated nation back to religion.
Second, I am famous here for my race-realted views (I am a firm believer in scientific evidence of racial inequality). Mixing ashkenasi jews (hardly distinguishable from europeans but for IQ one standard deviation above average and few genetic markers) with "eastern" sephardic jews, black african "jews" and other races/nations labeled as "jews" sounds silly to me.
Jews are very close to palestinians genetically - much closer then to many people who are considered jews in Israel.
BTW, there are quite real racial tensions in Israel. Ashkenasi-derived secular jews dislike religious sephardic jews, hate religious eastern-european descended jews and they all commonly despise uncivilised algerian jews. As for black african "jews", they are considered stone age people there.
The only thing uniting them is war against palestinians. Otherwise there is a good chance they would have more internal troubles.
For the last 3000 years jewish national identity was of people living in hostile conditions, prospering through adversity and always ending among the elite because of their cultural and educational traditions.
Enticing them to one state and making them into soldiers and farmers is contrary to common sense.
miko
[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]
