Author Topic: Tanks in the birthplace of Christ  (Read 3319 times)

Offline mrfish

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Tanks in the birthplace of Christ
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2001, 06:37:00 PM »
cc hang. point taken. thanks i appreciate that!  :)

Offline Ping

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Tanks in the birthplace of Christ
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2001, 06:48:00 PM »
HANGTIME <S> for such a measured and thought provoking post.
 I send my deepest condolences to you and the families of those suffering at this time of great tragedy.

  Ping
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline Staga

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« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2001, 07:06:00 PM »
Good post Hang

Offline Serapis

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« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2001, 09:26:00 PM »
I grew up in a largely Jewish community, to this day have Jewish friends from high school, and I am married to a Jewish woman with the ceramony performed by a highly reformed Rabbi.

The Jewish religion and culture -- like many other tight-knit social, religious and cultural affiliations -- can be a bit clannish, which frankly can be offputting at times. To be honest, at some soical party gatherings I have felt like an outsider, and traditions like marrying in the faith remain strong and personally disagreeable. But, to an agnostic like myself, my Southern Baptist relatives can be a bit clannish and offputing as well. As for the "Secret Jewish Conspiracy", it never really made sense to me.

The Jewish lawyer, doctor, banker, Hollywood mogul or landlord (and advertising, PR or marketing professional today) has been stereotyped, and, indeed, these are professions where members of the Jewish community have worked to establish careers. But what is ignored is the fact that for the better part of modern history Jews have been excluded from most aspects of mainstream industry and political power. How many Jews sit on Corporate 500 boards, even today? A drive for financial success is a part of the culture, which, along with a continual drive for higher education, are hard to really argue against -- particularly with the cultural adaptations necesssitated from the diaspora days. If other doors are closed you go to where you are allowed the oportunity to get ahead. On a personal level, I got my first job in PR after college on the recommendation of a Jewish instructor in my crisis management class to one of her professional clients actually. I'm sure there were Jewish students in the class she could have recommended in my place, but she judged me on my effortsn in class and not my religion.

Even though there was a strong Jewish population in the Norther Chicago suburb where I grew up (Northbrook), the real money (and social power) was In the WASP communities in towns like Glencoe and Winnetka. Hell, they even changed the name on half of a street in an upscale part of unincorporated Northbrook when a Jewish family moved in.

As for the stereotypes in general, I know gentiles who are cheaper than any Jew I know, and I know Jews who are as generous as any gentile I know. I know some Jewish men who are rather arrogant and perhaps a bit bigoted, but I would be hard pressed to say anymore so than the rest of society (though some of my wive's Jewish girlfriends actually seem to believe this stereotype as well). I also know many Jewish men who are as easy-going and accepting as anyone I've known. I have found that if you give as good as you take, you gain the respect of confrontational personal styles. Or just ignore them and get along with life.

MrFish, I don't know what you have experienced in your life -- it does seem this is based on personal experience as opposed to some upbringing issue or indoctrination. I can imagine that ego and aggression are common among exec's in the ad agency world and that your Jewish experience might have been a bit tainted by the influence of a few. I hope you someday encounter the positive aspects of the community.

As for Israel, I have long (well over a decade) supported a more multi-lateral approach to Israeli/Palestinian relations. The Palestinians are here to stay and so is Israel. Both seem to be playing some territorial end game, trying to wear each other down with calculated provocations, to have the best deal in place on the day a Palestinian state comes into existance. Frankly, I'm tired of it but far less so, I imagine, than the majority of Israelis and Palestinians. After we take care of the Bin Laden organization, if this doesn't turn into World War 3 in the meantime, I believe we need to help find a fair solution for both sides -- then move on as a country.

The Israeli lobby has been very successful at promoting its positions through voting blocks and campaign financing. They also yield the "anti semitism" card with considerable effectiveness at muting criticism -- deserved or not. However, I have long wondered why the pro-palestinian block has so totally failed to get organized over the years. There has been no conspiracy keeping them down, just a very belated understanding (it was starting to come together before Sept. 11) of how to win friends and influence people in Washington.


Charon

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2001, 10:12:00 PM »
Salute Charon

Very well said.

Offline Animal

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« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2001, 10:32:00 PM »
hehehe..
once in New York I walked to two different jewish men to ask for directions.

Both of them looked at me like toejam, and kept on walking.

According to my family, the jews there dont very much like blacks.

who's the bigot.

Offline osage

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« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2001, 10:42:00 PM »
I was there.

OJ strafed those altar boys in a 2/3 scale P-51 Mustang.  Then he did a chandelle and headed for Cuba.  Ernest Hemingway was in the back seat.  He called me a schmekelfleiser. It was magnificent.

Shut up you tards.

--Osage

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: osage ]

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2001, 11:32:00 PM »
Ernie?? Hell; my granma sez she did the wild naked monkey dance with him, (and he gave her the clap) ...

..but then, so did pretty much everybody else. (so they all got the clap too)

hoover said the consensus was ernie had a lil schmekelfleiser, which delayed the bio-terrorist warfare response. fbi said nearly half the dicks in america fell off by 1960.

which goes to show one lil schmekelfleiser can cause a lotta dicks to drop in the dirt.

that explains the whole deal.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Animal

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« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2001, 11:40:00 PM »
`yes Osage, I saw them fly overhead
ernest hemmingway kept yelling with foul language, and when a man wearing a monocle told him to watch his language, he convinced OJ to land the plane. a fist fight ensued, with the results of a drunken hemmingway muttering gibberish on the floor of a bar by the harbor.

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Animal ]

Offline Serapis

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Tanks in the birthplace of Christ
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2001, 10:37:00 AM »
Quote
hehehe..
once in New York I walked to two different jewish men to ask for directions.
Both of them looked at me like toejam, and kept on walking.

According to my family, the jews there dont very much like blacks.

who's the bigot.

Animal
 

Maybe that was just New York Animal   :) I've found that if you dared acknowledge anyone on the street (at least in Manhattan) you were seen as being some sort of freak. Hell, even making eye contact and smiling was unnerving. Perhaps this has changed today after the attacks. Against those two encounters you have to consider that Jews were on the forefront of the Civil Rights movement.

Personally, on my way to the United Center the other night a well dressed and well-spoken black man ask me for directions, claiming he was an out of towner with a broke-down rental car. My wife yelled at me to move along (perhaps her Jewish dislike of blacks, or her understanding of what a sucker I can be   :). His pitch was good, but when he asked for money to get across town I caught on. In any city the "directions" setup, followed by the bus/cab fare pitch, is a common street com practiced by people of all races.

Charon

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]

Offline -tronski-

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« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2001, 10:42:00 AM »
I can't believe I read the whole thing...

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline Gadfly

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« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2001, 04:09:00 PM »
Me either, you guys need to step back a bit.

Offline Udie

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« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2001, 04:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gadfly:
Me either, you guys need to step back a bit.


 Judging by the slowness of this post today I'd say we did  :)  I think/hope Hangtime put nails in the coffin of this dreadful thread. He shut me up anyway...


U

Offline weazel

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« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2001, 05:12:00 PM »
Mrfish it takes big nuts to speak out against Israel, it's a damn shame more people don't have the guts to speak up. <S>

IMO the US should wash their hands of Israel, we've dished money and arms to them for decades without recieving much in return, other than grief for supporting them.

The US has been their most steadfast friend and now they turn around and bite us on the leg like a stray dog when we ask them to show some restraint and not make the situation worse.

The Holocaust was an awful thing - but how long are we going to carry the guilt because Hitler tried to wipe out the Jewish people?

Go ahead and call me a bigot, racist, or nazi if it makes you feel better - I've been called worse.  ;)

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2001, 05:13:00 PM »
<S> Hang, <S> Charon.

Two very well thought out, and well presented posts.  It's nice to see posts like this again.