155mph car gets 186mpg and costs £7500

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Beet, quit being so damn condescending.  It adds nothing to the discussion.  We may be about the same age, but when it comes to cars, my knowledge far exceeds yours.

What, my oil change remark? Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I was merely observing that the interval between oil changes for modern engines has increased to a level we might not have thought feasible, 30 years ago.

[lazs2]

yep... and we don't lube cars or adjust points or put on tires every 10k (except back ones on hot rods)...

I think we all know how far cars have come.  

I think we know that a new Z06 vette will do 200mph with the airconditioning on and run sub 12 sec quarter miles while listening to a 100 watt stereo system and that it will crush you with g forces and that it will get 26 mpg and put out 525 hp and cost a mere 65k

you don't lube the car or change the spark plugs or put tires on it every vacation.

There are many ways for cars to evolve.... I think skuzzy realizes this and finds your cherry picking anoying is all.  It is like the guy who never drank wine before except maybe in wine coolers who finds a wine that some magazine says it one of the best for the money and then get's all preachy about it to everyone he meets explaining how it is the best wine ever and why.

listening to someone who knows so very little about cars preach about em is like.... well... listening to someone who knows nothing about guns talk about em.

lazs

[indy007]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
But the Lexus has edge.  It is designed to be repaired, in the advent of an accident.  It has the lowest cost of repair of any car in its class.

You should look at my DB and see what the parts actually cost. I'm pretty sure Lexus is japanese for "Toyota plus 30 percent".

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
yep... and we don't lube cars or adjust points  

The last time I had a car that used "points" was in 1978. At that time I had a Ford Cortina 2000E, and I ripped out the points and condensor and replaced them with a Piranha electronic ignition system. A slotted disc was fitted on to the distributor shaft under the rotor arm, and as the slots passed between a light sensor, which was fitted where the points used to be, the unit varied the current to the LT side of the coil but did it better and more dramatically than a set of points/condensor could. A better spark was the result, and I did gain about 1-2 extra mpg, and smoother running. (The HT side of the coil was unchanged) Did the same job on my next car, but the sensing mechanism employed the "Hall Effect", and used magnets instead of a light sensor and slotted disc.

you don't lube the car or change the spark plugs or put tires on it every vacation.

I never change the spark plugs in my car.

listening to someone who knows so very little about cars preach about em is like.... well... listening to someone who knows nothing about guns talk about em.

Not preaching about cars in this or any other thread, Lazs. I have simply brought to your attention a new car - the Loremo - and made a few observations about the way motoring has changed over the years. In some cases, the pace of change has been so fast that there have been difficulties assimilating it.

[lazs2]

Ok... but you seem to be taking one car and using that as proof that cars are going in one direction only when those in the know realize that there are many paths.

lazs

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by indy007
You should look at my DB and see what the parts actually cost. I'm pretty sure Lexus is japanese for "Toyota plus 30 percent".

I know there is a premium for the Lexus parts indy.  My point was not to elude to the actal parts cost, but to actually being able to repair the car.

For example, the front sub-frame is bolted on, using grade 12 bolts.  High in tensile strength, but lower shear strength.  It is possible to replace the front sub-frame.  In most cars, you cannot do this.  Any impact, which would bend/damage the front sub-frame, will normally bend the main frame as they are usually welded on.
In low impact collisions with the front, the front cross member is designed to allow it to move, then be re-positioned during repair.  Most cars require the front cross member to be replaced once they have absorbed an impact.

There was an analysis done for cars in this price range, and the Lexus IS-250 was actually cheaper to repair in frontal collisions below 50MPH.  I caught this on the news one night.  Parts costs more, but, generally speaking, you have to replace fewer of them.
--

Beet, you lament about then same things, over and over again, flying in the face of facts presented by others.  Simply taking things out of context to take a cheap shot.  The oil change interval, for my new car, is the same as the oil change interval for my Wife's car, which is 5 years old.  5,000 miles.  We established the potential reaons for this in another thread, you were part of.  You seem to convienently ignore that.

You continue to badger about some 12MPG vehicle (which is also available from your own country and which is something of a rarity here,..but you keep on whining about it), while also elluding to how far cars have come and how much more advanced they are.  You have taken any challenge about this Smart car and turned it into a "it's only because you are ignorant" discussion.

In fact, the Smart car is not as safe as most cars.  You ignore the fact the DOT (Department of Transportation) has restricted the Smart car to speeds not exceeding 85MPH due to safety concerns.  And when someone comments on how potentially unsafe this vehicle could be, you misdirect the conversation chanting about ignorance.

You take things out of context, you ignore facts, you dismiss facts all the while taking cheap shots every chance you get.  You do not ask questions, you assume you know it all, and know it better than anyone else.  You do not discuss, you dictate.  You take information which suits you and present it out of context, if neccessary, to support your claims.  Heck, there are times you have no facts, but just an opinion, and you present it over and over again as if it were fact.

These are all perceptions and my opinion based on how you present yourself here.  I find there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you.  You do not listen, and when refuted, you resort to misdirection and cheap shots covered in well presented language usage.  It does not matter how well you wrap it up, it comes off as condescending and arrogant.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... but you seem to be taking one car and using that as proof that cars are going in one direction only when those in the know realize that there are many paths.

Well no, but I would say that crude oil prices are going in one direction only. We know what that direction is, and it isn't South. Other than that, I wasn't trying to prove anything. How does making a post about a car that hasn't even entered production "prove anything"? In another thread, I even mentioned a news segment I saw in which a British racing enthusiast raced a car powered by wheat oil! I think it's a good thing for people to be aware of the alternatives to gas guzzling cars that rely on expensive imported oil from unreliable sources. More choices, see - I'm surprised that you of all people should have a beef with that, unless it's because you don't like some of those alternative choices.

A 200mph Corvette sounds formidable in terms of power, but what chance do you think it has of outselling the more mundane Honda Civic? As oil becomes more expensive, and you see the $4 gallon sometime this July/August, I think people will be looking for solutions. 26mpg is not a solution. YMMV.

[indy007]

I know exactly what you're saying Skuzzy. Handled my share of Toyota, Lexus, Scion, & some domestic body orders once upon a time. Comparing the amount of front bumper covers/absorbers/extensions/reinforcements that are sold without need crossmembers, engine cradles, or more frame parts.. it really is astonishing and a testament to clever engineering.

There's a bit more to it though, in regards to my post... On an IS-250, there's actually little commonality with existing Toyota/Scion/Lexus, so not much chance to save a buck on general repairs. A quick example are the 470 series SUV's. Last I saw, the part # should be for a Sequoia, 04465-35290. They're the exact same as the 470's pads... except at a Lexus store, the same part, in the same box, costs them and you about 20%-30% more. It's a strange, but appearently successful system. Lexus dealers can not use the same distributors as Toyota/Scion stores. In fact, Gulf States Toyota is 10 minutes west of Houston, hundreds of Toyota dealers use them. The Lexus stores here in town must use the Lexus distributor, which I think is in Tennessee. However, they could call over to a Toyota store, have the part delivered, and actually make a few % more on it. Part of my business capitalizes on cross-compatibility and while it's not our most profitable idea, it is a good one. Works for Toyota-Lexus-Scion-Hyundai, Ford-Mazda, and some others... you just have to sit down with enough books and patience (or in my case, OCR scanner, Excel, and a *!@# load of RAM)

It's a strange, strange parts world.

[Skuzzy]

Oh yeah, been there and done that indy.  It is funny about the parts though.

Most of the car manufacturer's do not make thier own parts and some of the parts manufacturer's take advantage of it as well.  "Hey, this is the same part as the Toyota uses!  Put it in a Lexus box and charge more for it!"  I used to see this, all the time, when I worked in auto parts.

Heck, this was the also the case internally to the manufacturer as well.  

Ford was really bad about this, at one time.  The upper control arm for the Mustang, Falcon, and Fairlane were the exact same parts, but carried three different part numbers and three different prices.