Author Topic: ACLU and NOW support mother who drowned her kids  (Read 1073 times)

Offline Staga

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ACLU and NOW support mother who drowned her kids
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2001, 07:05:00 PM »
If you want revenge kill that bit_h.
If you wanna punish that woman keep him alive next 60 years.

Offline buhdman

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ACLU and NOW support mother who drowned her kids
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by batdog:
Murder is freaking murder. If I go out get drunk as toejam and run over 20 people whats going to happen? That wench needs to die at the least. Its pathatic how people are always looking to excuse others for thier actions.

xBAT

I don't usually get up on a soapbox, but the subject of mental illness hits too close to home for me to just sit by idly and watch.

So, here goes ...

The reply, above, is a tragic example of the ignorance and hardheartedness that exists in this community and in this country with regards to the mentally ill.

When you go out and "get drunk as toejam" it is because you choose to do so. Therefore, you choose to be out of control and are, in that sense, responsible for your actions.  A mentally ill person does not choose to be mentally ill -- that's the way they were born. (I'm talking about the physiological mental illness, here, not the "learned" kind)
That's the way their brains are "wired".  In fact, to many mentally ill people, it's the rest of us who are "different"!

I agree that if someone is pretending to be mentally ill in order to escape responsibility for their actions then this is wrong.  But if someone is indeed mentally ill, we need to approach the problem differently.  In the case of this woman in Texas, I think she needs a full work up to rule out the possibility that there is something more serious wrong with her.  If they're "treating her for depression", but in fact she is schizophrenic the drugs may be doing her no good at all.  That's why we have the psychiatric profession, to evaluate people and make those judgements.  And believe me, they can tell when you're faking it.

I am mentally ill (bipolar or manic depressive) and have been for 50 years.  It took me 40 years of highs and lows to finally endanger my family relationships and seek out medical help.  I have been on Lithium for over 10 years now with the wonderful side-effect that I am almost "normal"  ;)  At least I have stopped alienating my family and now have earned their love and support.  I couldn't have done it without a lot of love and understanding from them and my close friends.

Of course, my situation is mild compared to someone who is schizophrnic.

One of the things I have learned is that if you are mentally ill and pills help, you STAY ON YOUR MEDICATION.  I tried stopping and, sure enough, the old symptoms returned.  My wife was on Paxil, for a while, and had to stop so she could try other medication.  She got very ill (severe flu-like symptoms) when she stopped taking the drug.

During some research on mental illnesses, we ran across a class-action suit against the manufacturers of Paxil, stating that they had "understated" the addictive nature of the drug.  One of the examples they cited was a man who stopped taking Paxil, cold turkey (I'm pretty sure).  His withdrawal reaction was to get so depressed that he took his own life and that of his family.  Sound familiar?

The point is, you don't take mental illness lightly.  And you have to understand that if a mentally ill person is taking medication for an illness and stops taking that medication, there are great risks involved.  Unexpected side-effects and recurrance of symptoms are going to happen.  It's not like taking aspirin for a sprained ankle.  The mental illness doesn't just "go away".

While I understand that some people are don't have any tolerance for people of different political persusions than themselves, I am appalled that they would use mental illness as the sounding-board for that hatred.  The only thing that threads such as this do is to nuture and feed the kind of ignorance and arrogance shown in the referenced reply.  They do nothing to help the plight of the mentally ill and very little to further the education of the masses on the subject (with a few notable exceptions, thank you Miko2d!)

So, to counter this, I offer a couple of links that I ran across in my research on mental illnesses:
 http://www.mentalhealth.com/p.html  (excellent reference page)
 http://www.mhsource.com/hy/links.html

For those of you who truly wish to educate yourselves and make a difference in the world, I urge you to visit these sites.

For those of you who would rather remain ignorant of the subject and continue to spew venom at the world, well, all I have to say is that you are your own worst enemy.  It's because of behavior like that that the ACLU and NOW exist in the first place  ;)

Have a nice day and remember: TAKE YOUR MEDICATION  ;)

Buhdman, out

Offline ispar

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ACLU and NOW support mother who drowned her kids
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2001, 10:22:00 PM »
Holy cow! Except for supporting the death penalty, I agree with miko2d! This is a historic moment.

And Buhdman, well spoken. S!

I'm tempted to hijack (responding to some other replies) with a spiel about why the death penalty is always wrong and about where crimes tend to come from, and why you're all wrong  ;)... but I won't. I'll simply say that the vast majority of crimes committed are not because the person involved is bad or evil, or wants to cause other people suffering and pain.

Offline Eagler

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ACLU and NOW support mother who drowned her kids
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2001, 07:50:00 AM »
sorry, but I think ANYONE who commits murder is "MENTALLY ILL" to one degree or another. Does that mean they all should be supported by these two groups??

I'm sure depression is a terrible thing but do us all a favor and off yourself and leave the rest of us alone....
 *edit*
man, that sounded cold  :)
what I mean is if someone is that feed up with life and unhappy, let them take it out on themselves and not the innocents that surround them..if they choose the latter, they should pay the price.

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
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Offline Gunthr

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ACLU and NOW support mother who drowned her kids
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2001, 10:29:00 AM »
In my opinion, in a compassionate society, and according to most state law, if it can be shown that the woman was mentally ill when she killed her kids, she would be treated and incarcerated until such time as she is not a danger to others, and not punished, based on the theory that a mentally ill person cannot form the necessary "specific intent" to commit the crime, or understand right from wrong.

If she wasn't mentally ill, and she simply murdered her kids out of anger, frustration, or for the insurance money, or some other normal emotion or motivation, she would be subject to punishment.

I think it's pretty tough to say what should be done in this case until all the facts are known. So far, a more clear-cut case is the case of the woman who sent her kids into a lake while they were belted into the rear seat of her car. All the elements of murder were present in that case. She should have fried in my opinion. I'm not so sure about this one.

.02
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