Author Topic: Sharksmouth Seafire (Read 3182 times)

Kev367th · « **on:** June 03, 2006, 06:22:40 AM »

809 Sqn FAA
HMS Unicorn
September 1943
Flown by Major Al Wright Royal Marines

Took part in "Operation Avalanche", the invasion of Salerno.

Krusty · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:22:35 PM »

"She smiles at me, as if she knows something I do not..."

Hoarach · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2006, 06:19:01 PM »

For some reason when looking at it, it looks like a la7 with a shark mouth.

TDeacon · « **Reply #3 on:** June 05, 2006, 11:10:45 PM »

Maybe because the lower nose contour on this AH model is a bit off?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:25:09 PM »

Finally tracked down David Brown's 1973 book on the Seafire. What do I spy among the photos?

Here it is. I'd never seen a photo of the shark mouthed Spit before, just a profile.

Krusty · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2006, 08:56:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hoarach
For some reason when looking at it, it looks like a la7 with a shark mouth.

...and the upper contours

Kev367th · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:01:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Finally tracked down David Brown's 1973 book on the Seafire. What do I spy among the photos?

Here it is. I'd never seen a photo of the shark mouthed Spit before, just a profile.

SWEEEEEET

Correct me if I'm wrong, it looks clipped also

.

Looks like a hell of a lot of the L III's were clipped.
Assuming it's an L III, 6 exhuast stacks, never seen a IIc with 6.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:17:37 PM »

It's ID'd as a IIc and since it doesn't have the tropical filter of the later III, I do believe it's a IIc. There are a number of photos ID'd in the book as IIcs with 4 bladers and 6 exhaust stacks.

I suppose like the Vb they added that as the war progressed

Photos of clipped IIcs as well btw with the 4 blade prop.

I'm more and more agreeing with you that the Seafire in AH should be the LIII if for no other reason that it just looks that much better with the 4 blade prob, tropical filter and multiple exhaust stacks

The more I look at it, the more I think it's about the best looking of the Spit family out there. The shorter nose combined with the above gives it a really nice appearance.

And in AH terms the nose of the VIII/IX/XVI is much more accurate. Wonder if they could splice it on to the Seafire and redo it as the LIII?

Kev367th · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:20:16 PM »

Wonder if it's one of the early batch IIc's (Merlin 46) refitted with the Merlin 32?

We should have the L III only because it's the most representative Seafire model (over 3x more L III than IIc made).
What we have now is the (apart from the converted Vb's) rarest Seafire ever made with the rarest engine it was ever fitted with.

People have said the IIc is a good sub for the III, then I point out that if anything the F IX is a lot closer performance wise at the L III's best alt.
The IIc can't get close to the L III's low alt performance until 20k or so.
Just because its a Seafire doesn't make a good sub for the L III.

Look at it this way by wars end the BPF had 12 Seafire sqns, 8 were L III's, 4 were IIc's (with Merlin 32).
The refitting of the original batch (110 or so) of Merlin 46 IIc's started 1943 (they realised the Merlin 46 was crap fairly quickly). All Seafire IIc's after the initial batch were fitted standard with the Merlin 32.
So all IIc's eventually had the Merlin 32.

I'd even settle for a IIc with the Merlin 32.

[edit] Yup the Merlin 32 Seafires had 4 bladed prop, cropped impeller, and 6 exhaust stacks - L IIc. (Nov 42). Conversely the IIc with Merlin 46 only had a production run lasting less 5 months (June 42).

Guppy35 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:45:00 PM »

The image of the sharmouth IIc is dated 1944 and it names the pilot as you did but lists it as being on HMS Stalker. Major Al Wright as pilot though so it must be the same bird. That would probably point to it being one of the re-engined birds.

Nice view of a clipped IIc landing on HMS Hunter

Guppy35 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:45:38 PM »

And a good photo of another clipped IIc on HMS Battler during Operation Avalance.

Kev367th · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:48:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
The image of the sharmouth IIc is dated 1944 and it names the pilot as you did but lists it as being on HMS Stalker. Major Al Wright as pilot though so it must be the same bird. That would probably point to it being one of the re-engined birds.

Nice view of a clipped IIc landing on HMS Hunter

Can't be 1944.
The 'sharkmouth' Seafire supposedly broke it's back landing back on the CV during "Avalanche" in 1943.

So much for the RAE report saying "clipping would hamper carrier ops". LOL

Guppy35 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2006, 11:01:01 PM »

What serial do you have for the sharkmouthed Seafire? MB216? Spit the hist doesn't list that with any kind of carrier ops but at AST in April of 43.

Kev367th · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2006, 05:49:11 AM »

Seen two serial numbers associated with it -

MB216
MB269

Be interesting to work out when the re-engining of the Merlin 46 Seafires started.

Got
Delivery begins to units June 42 of Merlin 46 Seafires.
Delivery begins to units Nov 42 of Merlin 32 Seafires.
Service entry - Nov 43 of Seafire III's. Same as IIc - originally F III, very quickly changed to Merlin 55M L III's, the F III's (approx 10) converted to FR III's.

So they got the 110 Merlin 46 Seafires over a period of about 5 months, then they switched to Merlin 32.

Remember reading something about mid 43 they started the re-engine of the first batch.

SunKing · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2006, 08:29:55 AM »

That's some great wheathering.